AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

[jonny2mad]

I think its a mix of culture and race and numbers and time and future circumstances

[UndercoverElephant]

I think its a mix of culture and race and numbers and time and future circumstances

That is not a healthy mix. If you stick "race" in there then you undermine any legitimate point you may have about the other things. There is no rational basis for discriminating in any way against people based on their race. I'm worried about the cultural elements, and the relevance of "numbers, time and future circumstances" nearly everybody here agrees with. You appear to also be worried about our national gene pool being added to by non-white people, and I can see no justification for anyone worrying about that.

We have enough problems with "backward eugenics" involving the "wrong sort of white people" reproducing too much. If you are worried about the gene pool, start there.

[jonny2mad]

Not even worrying about the gene pool, you will notice conflict the world over that involves race, thats why people spend their time in anti racism, if race wasnt a potential element in conflict why would anyone bother .

Sinhalese and Tamils have killed 100,000 of each other so far, Darfur is largely a racial conflict in sudan, I think if you have a group of people who look very different thats another thing you can have conflict over .

I think american jails are a good example of western people in a very racially mixed situation undergoing scarcity, you will notice the activity of gangs and that most of these gangs are racial.

So how you look your apperance and how that links you to a shared imagined community,

[clv101]

I think american jails are a good example of western people in a very racially mixed situation undergoing scarcity, you will notice the activity of gangs and that most of these gangs are racial.

No, American jails aren't a good example of anything except how bonkers America is. There's nowhere else in the world with a system anything like there's. The US incarceration rate is approaching 1% of the population!

UK is 0.15%, France 0.10%, Italy 0.11 Germany 0.083%.

[biffvernon]

...nearly everybody here agrees with.

I don't. j2m certainly looks like a racist to me. If it quacks like a duck...etc.

[jonny2mad]

I think american jails are a good example of western people in a very racially mixed situation undergoing scarcity, you will notice the activity of gangs and that most of these gangs are racial.

No, American jails aren't a good example of anything except how bonkers America is. There's nowhere else in the world with a system anything like there's. The US incarceration rate is approaching 1% of the population!

UK is 0.15%, France 0.10%, Italy 0.11 Germany 0.83%.

That just means they have a larger sample of their overall population, which is fractured and balkanised and I think getting more so

[jonny2mad]

...nearly everybody here agrees with.

I don't. j2m certainly looks like a racist to me. If it quacks like a duck...etc.

Ad hominem,

[biffvernon]

Nah, I was just qualifying UE's "...nearly everybody".

[UndercoverElephant]

...nearly everybody here agrees with.

I don't. j2m certainly looks like a racist to me. If it quacks like a duck...etc.

Saying there is a problem with numbers (overall population), time and future circumstances is not racist. The racist bits of J2M's views are quite explicitly racist. I'm not sure why he's even bothering to deny this.

ETA: J2M appears to be saying the following: "I'm not a racist, but it's natural to dislike people who have skin a different colour to your own, and I don't want them to come here."

[kenneal - lagger]

I have to laugh at people who are concerned about the colour of another's skin. After all may of us spend an inordinate amount of time in the sun during the summer trying to go brown and think we look healthy when we do!!

[AndySir]

Assuming that this website is still vaguely centred around sustainability issues and is not, as it increasingly appears, a forum of apologists for the BNP (they don't believe they're racist either), you should acknowledge that asylum numbers are too small to be significant (about 6,000 a year). The overwhelming majority of our immigration comes from within the EU where the population is falling without immigration and remaining steady with.

Faced with those facts I think we can dismiss immigration as a sustainability issue can't we?

[UndercoverElephant]

Assuming that this website is still vaguely centred around sustainability issues and is not, as it increasingly appears, a forum of apologists for the BNP (they don't believe they're racist either), you should acknowledge that asylum numbers are too small to be significant (about 6,000 a year). The overwhelming majority of our immigration comes from within the EU where the population is falling without immigration and remaining steady with.

Faced with those facts I think we can dismiss immigration as a sustainability issue can't we?

I believe the optimum population of the UK is no more than 20 million.

J2M is making statements which are quite explicitly racist, as summarised in my previous post. If he's not a racist, I don't know what is.

But I am not "an apologist for the BNP" simply because I think these islands are overcrowded. I believe it is rather sad that it has been left to the BNP to raise issues that the left doesn't want to touch, even though the issues are real. The whole thing was summed up perfectly by "Gordon Brown meets bigoted woman." She wasn't a bigot. She was just a normal person with real concerns about what was happening to her community, and Gordon Brown is an intolerant arse who is out of touch with the reality of "bigoted woman." That was the moment he lost that election for sure (not that he was likely to win it anyway.) It alienated Labour voters.

[Little John]

Assuming that this website is still vaguely centred around sustainability issues and is not, as it increasingly appears, a forum of apologists for the BNP (they don't believe they're racist either), you should acknowledge that asylum numbers are too small to be significant (about 6,000 a year). The overwhelming majority of our immigration comes from within the EU where the population is falling without immigration and remaining steady with.

Faced with those facts I think we can dismiss immigration as a sustainability issue can't we?

That's nonsense.

It's distracting nonsense because you are the first person on this thread, with the possible exception of j2m, as far as I can see, who has brought up asylum seekers. The problem under discussion, at present, is simply the sheer numbers involved and the pressure this puts on a country both logistically as well as culturally. The thread has yet to discuss in any detail the issue of precisely who these numbers are made up of.

It's perniciously misrepresentative nonsense since nobody here, apart from perhaps j2m (though I am guessing since he has not mentioned them) is apologising for the BNP and I think it's pretty pathetic of you to try and use that cheap piece of rhetoric to tar anyone who wishes to discuss this issue, to be honest.

Wherever the immigration comes from, in terms of the numbers involved over the last decade or so, is not relevant. So, for me, any other issue, including where they come from is dwarfed. however, if pushed, I am bound to note that if there is a large influx over a short period of time, then people who hail from countries and cultures not too dissimilar to our own are going to assimilate more quickly and efficiently than if they hail from culturally very dissimilar cultures. That's just common sense. To repeat, though, for me that issue is secondary to the numbers.

Which leads me to my last point. Your post is also dishonest nonsense since you must know full well that, irrespective of their origin, the level of immigration to this country over the last 10 years is quite simply historically unprecedented. Net immigration quadrupled to nearly 200,000 a year between 1997 and 2009. In 2010 it was 252,000. Over 3 million immigrants have arrived since 1997. Anybody can check the veracity of the above statement by going to any reputable source and checking the numbers.

[Little John]

Assuming that this website is still vaguely centred around sustainability issues and is not, as it increasingly appears, a forum of apologists for the BNP (they don't believe they're racist either), you should acknowledge that asylum numbers are too small to be significant (about 6,000 a year). The overwhelming majority of our immigration comes from within the EU where the population is falling without immigration and remaining steady with.

Faced with those facts I think we can dismiss immigration as a sustainability issue can't we?

I believe the optimum population of the UK is no more than 20 million.

J2M is making statements which are quite explicitly racist, as summarised in my previous post. If he's not a racist, I don't know what is.

But I am not "an apologist for the BNP" simply because I think these islands are overcrowded. I believe it is rather sad that it has been left to the BNP to raise issues that the left doesn't want to touch, even though the issues are real. The whole thing was summed up perfectly by "Gordon Brown meets bigoted woman." She wasn't a bigot. She was just a normal person with real concerns about what was happening to her community, and Gordon Brown is an intolerant arse who is out of touch with the reality of "bigoted woman." That was the moment he lost that election for sure (not that he was likely to win it anyway.) It alienated Labour voters.

I couldn't have put it better.

[AndySir]

Okay, so I'm the first person on this thread to bring up asylum apart from the most prolific poster on this thread (and the now absent re) and you call this dishonest and misleading Mr Cook?

Yup the net immigration has been about 200,000 a year of which most (I think over 80% from memory) is within the EU where we have free movement by treaty. Therefore any talk of limiting immigration is senseless unless you with to talk about the nuclear option of tearing up Maastrict, and doubly senseless since the area in which we have free movement DOESN'T HAVE A POPULATION PROBLEM. So your talk of immigration into the UK makes little more sense than talking about the immigration of Scots to the South East (where we have been coming for quite a while for better pay and conditions, much to the chagrin of the usual gallery of bigots).

To the point. Unanswerable. Not distracting.