Launch of The immigrant War

[biffvernon]

From what I've heard from friends who have visited USA, overt racism is common over there in a way that would never be tolerated in Britain.

But biff america is closer to your multicultural dream don't tell me it doesn't work

No it isn't. It's a deeply divided society.

[biffvernon]

race was the main factor

Association is not the same as causation.

[vtsnowedin]

[No it isn't. It's a deeply divided society.

As compared to what other society? I think the US does pretty well considering the wide range of peoples that have been thrust together by historic events. It is not perfect by any means and may fall apart as badly as Tito's Yugoslavia if times get as bad as many here fear they will but don't count us out just yet.

[biffvernon]

As compared to what other society?

The UK. I've never been to the USA so my information is second hand and anecdotal and I would love to hear that the experience of friends who have visited was atypical and unfortunate, however...

[JavaScriptDonkey]

The UK is very deeply divided.

Multiculturalism is only seen in cities and conurbations whereas the countryside that Biff chooses to live in is predominantly white.

To shift back to IQ for a moment I think it's almost as hard to describe what a high IQ means as it is describe colour.

Most of us have had the experience of looking at a child's puzzle and just seeing the correct solution. We don't have to think about it we just see it and know it to be so. Our brain registers the details of the situation, acknowledges the existence of a problem and provides a solution. That is raw intelligence.

A higher IQ simply means you can do it faster, more reliably and for more complex problems that involve more steps in the deductive reasoning process.

It has very little to do with knowledge or memory or cultural awareness.

[Little John]

The UK is very deeply divided.

Multiculturalism is only seen in cities and conurbations whereas the countryside that Biff chooses to live in is predominantly white.

To shift back to IQ for a moment I think it's almost as hard to describe what a high IQ means as it is describe colour.

Most of us have had the experience of looking at a child's puzzle and just seeing the correct solution. We don't have to think about it we just see it and know it to be so. Our brain registers the details of the situation, acknowledges the existence of a problem and provides a solution. That is raw intelligence.

A higher IQ simply means you can do it faster, more reliably and for more complex problems that involve more steps in the deductive reasoning process.

It has very little to do with knowledge or memory or cultural awareness.

Yes, I can confirm that raw intelligence has nothing to do with knowledge or long term memory (which is the kind of memory I think you meant) or cultural awareness. I would even go so far as to argue that IQ is not even related to the deductive reasoning process, at least directly. It may simply stem from differences in the length of short term memory. However, this difference in short term memory length may mean that complex deductive reasoning skills becomes easier to learn.

[JavaScriptDonkey]

I'd agree with the distinction for a requirement for short term memory. It's a bit like a computer needing RAM as working space but not quite.

It isn't memory like we normally experience but more like a wide angle lens. You need to be able to see all of a problem at the same time and grasp what it all means. Just being able to memorise it doesn't help that much.

By way of example you can teach most children the times tables by rote. Many will be able to answer any given question by working up from one multiple they particularly remember...4x4=16, 5x4=20, 6x4=24!!!

The ones with good memory will just jump straight to 6x4=24!!

The bright ones will see that 6x4 = two lots of (6x2) and just solves 2x12 instead.

The gifted ones will see that this means that nearly all mental multiplication can be resolved this away apart from those involving primes and so just bothers to learn those and works the rest out on the fly.

[RenewableCandy]

But there's yet another factor that everybody forgets about: the motivation of the person who's doing the test. If, for example, you gave the young RC some nice knotty abstract (or otherwise) problems to solve, she would get stuck-in with the greatest of pleasure. The fact that other people approved of this attitude was by the bye: that's just how I was. But I needn't have been that way: I might have found the problems a chore, or intimidating, or "none of my business", or annoying, or... In those cases, the people doing the tests need some extra motivation. If for some reason this isn't provided along with the tests, the results are not a measure of problem-solving ability, but of (problem-solving ability * motivation).

[emordnilap]

As compared to what other society?

The UK. I've never been to the USA so my information is second hand and anecdotal and I would love to hear that the experience of friends who have visited was atypical and unfortunate, however...

Is this atypical?

Last May, 47 U.S. Marines and 21 civilian accomplices were charged with stealing assault rifles, bullets, night vision goggles and $800 flash lights to sell on eBay and Craiglist, at garage sales and through direct meetings. Buyers included domestic gangs and foreign agents. Since the country itself is, by far, the world’s biggest arms dealers, why shouldn’t its lowly grunts get in on the action? Last April, six US Army soldiers were arrested for selling stolen weapons, trafficking cocaine and offering murder for hire, “wet work,” with a hit costing $50,000, plus five kilos of coke. Your gang’s initial could be carved, free of charge, into the deceased individual.

There has never been a country fighting so many wars without a serious debate about any of them.

Love the author's name, btw.

[JavaScriptDonkey]

But there's yet another factor that everybody forgets about: the motivation of the person who's doing the test..

For those that can, doing this sort of problem solving is enjoyable. Much in the same way that a 5 mile cross country run is a chore for many but a delight to the athletic.

[RenewableCandy]

I'd say there does exist a group of the able-but-unmotivated. You could tell, because they were good at other things that required the type of problem-solving ability that was being looked for. It's just they didn't do it "in laboratory conditions".

[clv101]

But there's yet another factor that everybody forgets about: the motivation of the person who's doing the test..

For those that can, doing this sort of problem solving is enjoyable. Much in the same way that a 5 mile cross country run is a chore for many but a delight to the athletic.

For some, sure, but RC is undoubtedly correct in saying that some people are 'able' but unmotivated. Anyone who has spent any time in a teaching environment know that students' results don't correlate perfectly with ability - motivation and interest in the subject play a huge role.

[JavaScriptDonkey]

For some, sure, but RC is undoubtedly correct in saying that some people are 'able' but unmotivated. Anyone who has spent any time in a teaching environment know that students' results don't correlate perfectly with ability - motivation and interest in the subject play a huge role.

Without doubt but these tests do not require learning or revision or effort. They are as easy as breathing.

[biffvernon]

And where do artistic achievement, creativity, empathy or scientific insight come in?

[Little John]

And where do artistic achievement, creativity, empathy or scientific insight come in?

scientific insight and creativity have a weak correlation with IQ, from what I remember. It is a weak relationship, but it does exist.