Launch of The immigrant War

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 14 Feb 2013, 11:35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSVa37q4 ... e=youtu.be

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 14 Feb 2013, 16:33

The most interesting thing about that film was that the participants were all migrants from what I could hear and see. I know that London has a high proportion of migrants but 100% seems a bit much.

With the possibility of climate migrants being added to the flood of economic migrants we already have we have to do something to keep our population to feedable levels in the future. We have a housing crisis now without more people being added to the queue and we also have a problem with long term unemployment among some sections of the community. If we need more workers we should address the nurture and education of the small number of work shy people in the population not import more people from abroad.

Part of the reason for the continued importation of people is to keep growth going in the economy. As many of these immigrants send a large proportion of their wages to relatives in their home countries, how is that helping growth in this country? As growth is not sustainable anyway it is a waste of time and resources bringing all these immigrants in in the first place.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 14 Feb 2013, 16:53

kenneal - lagger wrote:The most interesting thing about that film was that the participants were all migrants from what I could hear and see. I know that London has a high proportion of migrants but 100% seems a bit much.

With the possibility of climate migrants being added to the flood of economic migrants we already have we have to do something to keep our population to feedable levels in the future. We have a housing crisis now without more people being added to the queue and we also have a problem with long term unemployment among some sections of the community. If we need more workers we should address the nurture and education of the small number of work shy people in the population not import more people from abroad.

Part of the reason for the continued importation of people is to keep growth going in the economy. As many of these immigrants send a large proportion of their wages to relatives in their home countries, how is that helping growth in this country. As growth is not sustainable anyway it is a waste of time and resources bringing all these immigrants in in the first place.

It's not about growth. It's about keeping pay and conditions down. It always has been. The really clever bit has been the hijacking of the leftist/liberal agenda such that the traditional left-leaning liberals have been unable to address this issue for fear of being calld "racist".

It's all a sick joke.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 14 Feb 2013, 17:01

I forgot about that bit, Steve. Thanks for reminding me. Keeping pay and conditions down helps growth because it helps control inflation.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 14 Feb 2013, 17:06

kenneal - lagger wrote:I forgot about that bit, Steve. Thanks for reminding me. Keeping pay and conditions down helps growth because it helps control inflation.

Growth and, even, reduced inflation may or may not be consequences of keeping pay and conditions down. However, I repeat, they are not the primary objective. The primary objective is and always has been the individual profits of those people who are high enough up the economic and political food chain to be able to influence immigration policies in such a way as to keep the lid on the supply of work in relation to the numbers of workers chasing it. In other words, every capitalist society depends on having a certain percentage of unemployed in order to keep the employed "on their toes".

The only reason growth has been able to mask all of the negative effects of all of the above is because of ever increasing inputs of raw resources. However, as we both know, we are now at peak resources. Thus, driving pay and conditions down of the poorest earners from now on in is unambiguously in order to maintain the profits of those at the top at their expense.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 14 Feb 2013, 17:25

The trouble is that if you drive the pay of the workforce down they have no money to spend so the whole economy tanks, as we have found out recently. The rich can't keep the economy going on their own as they don't spend enough of their earnings within the economy. So it's not in their interest to drive down workers' wages.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 14 Feb 2013, 17:55

Well I can't exactly go swanning around saying "Ban all immigrants", because I'm married to one! But while there's still a surplus of people wanting to come and live here over those who are leaving, there's going to have to be some kind of system that welcomes some people while rejecting others, and near the dividing-line between the two it's not always going to look fair or pretty.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 14 Feb 2013, 18:10

What we need to look at is why the UK is such a desirable place and why other places are so undesirable. We've been robbing the rest of the world for centuries - hardly surprising that we now need to give something back.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 14 Feb 2013, 19:45

biffvernon wrote:What we need to look at is why the UK is such a desirable place and why other places are so undesirable. We've been robbing the rest of the world for centuries - hardly surprising that we now need to give something back.

hmmm where exactly did this happen ? Yes some people made a lot of money out of the empire but we were the first people to have an industrial revolution, and I think we would have been rich through trade anyway. How much did the empire cost us all those bridges, railways, factories, roads put up all over the place that in many cases got nationalised .

And your statement seems to assume that we are still robbing the rest of the world, where exactly is this happening? We don’t have a empire we haven’t controlled for example Africa for 50 years or more

I don't think we need to give a thing back, what we have wasnt their in the first place, why dont we ask for all the aid and charity money back, all the effort by volunteers .

The reason most of the third world is poor has to do with the actions of the people that live there.

If you have a average family size of 8 children in the middle of a desert, where half the people are on food aid, you have to say africans need to grow up and take some responsibilty for their own plight.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 14 Feb 2013, 19:53

biffvernon wrote:What we need to look at is why the UK is such a desirable place and why other places are so undesirable. We've been robbing the rest of the world for centuries - hardly surprising that we now need to give something back.

What's this "we".

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 14 Feb 2013, 20:03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN6CHtGGo4g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwu1mIA83s8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43SbmhNMHSk

You could look up the muslim patrol. The white people interviewed saying if they dont like the laws round here they need to go somewhere they like the laws better

so laughable. You encourage mass immigration which is really invasion, and then you expect the invader to respect your point of view .

basically your weak and they can smell it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... yside.html

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 14 Feb 2013, 20:12

couldnt the reason we are rich have something to do with the industrial revolution, most of the worlds inventions, millions of people working their guts outs in british and western factories coal mines etc for centurys .

No according to biff we stole it off africans, if my grandfather, great grandfather, great great grandfather etc were still alive ( I have miners in the family back to 1620 who died of silcosis) maybe you could tell them the reason the west has money has nothing to do with them

JavaScriptDonkey · Post by **JavaScriptDonkey** » 14 Feb 2013, 20:45

There are lots of very rich Africans in Africa.
There are also some very poor people in Africa.

You've got to wonder why the rich ones don't help the poor ones by paying more taxes and creating a Nation Health Service.

While they are at it they could provide free schools and houses and even a pension.

Now what was that you were asking about the attractions of our foggy island Biff?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 14 Feb 2013, 20:53

Example: A few months ago I explained just how much fish we Europeans had taken from Somalia's waters, reducing the Somalis to piracy.

an estimated $300 million of tuna, shrimp, and lobster being taken each year, depleting stocks previously available to local fishermen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_Somalia

Blood diamonds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_diamond

Conflict timber: http://www.unep.org/dewa/Africa/publica ... nt/205.htm

I was having dinner last Sunday with a friend who is a serious birder - he goes round the world watching them. He said there's not much point going to Madagascar anymore - it's all trashed. Titanium dioxide is in so much of our stuff. http://world.time.com/2013/02/08/the-wh ... adagascar/

Coltan War: http://www.cellular-news.com/coltan/
http://www.webpronews.com/iphones-true- ... es-2012-03

Those are just the first few I thought of. Basically we, the rich part of the world, are continuing to trash Africa, stealing the valuable stuff and leaving war and destitution behind. And some of us have the temerity to claim it's their own fault. Look in the mirror.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 14 Feb 2013, 21:28

biffvernon wrote:Example: A few months ago I explained just how much fish we Europeans had taken from Somalia's waters, reducing the Somalis to piracy.

an estimated $300 million of tuna, shrimp, and lobster being taken each year, depleting stocks previously available to local fishermen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_Somalia

Blood diamonds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_diamond

Conflict timber: http://www.unep.org/dewa/Africa/publica ... nt/205.htm

I was having dinner last Sunday with a friend who is a serious birder - he goes round the world watching them. He said there's not much point going to Madagascar anymore - it's all trashed. Titanium dioxide is in so much of our stuff. http://world.time.com/2013/02/08/the-wh ... adagascar/

Coltan War: http://www.cellular-news.com/coltan/
http://www.webpronews.com/iphones-true- ... es-2012-03

Those are just the first few I thought of. Basically we, the rich part of the world, are continuing to trash Africa, stealing the valuable stuff and leaving war and destitution behind. And some of us have the temerity to claim it's their own fault. Look in the mirror.

Bollocks

Some rich Western companies are taking the Somali fish.

Me?

I just go to the supermarket and buy fish in a can. I, like many of the people I know, can't afford to worry about where the buggers come from (though I still do cos I'm weird like that).

It's nice for you, I'm sure, that you can afford to worry. But, then, that's the thing about abstract moral responsibility for the actions of others at a distance. Like everything else in life, it's nice if you can afford it.