Cammo says something vaguely relevant

[RenewableCandy]

HMG to divert some dosh from Dash-for-Gas to efficiency.

The Government is to plough up to £1 billion into projects to cut Britain’s reliance on overseas gas, as part of a drive by Conservatives in the Coalition to try and “reclaim” the green agenda.

Under proposals to be announced later this year ministers will divert money currently earmarked to build a new gas fired power station into projects to cut electricity demand.

The move will be portrayed by David Cameron as proof that the Conservatives are still

...twitching.

It's probably a personal battle between Cammo and Ozzie.

[emordnilap]

ministers will divert money currently earmarked to build a new gas fired power station into projects to cut electricity demand.

Wot, like make more people unemployed?

[RenewableCandy]

Au contraire! They're going to set up an agency where you can hire serfs to do the laundry instead of using one of they foreign-made washing-machines...

[Tarrel]

Au contraire! They're going to set up an agency where you can hire serfs to do the laundry instead of using one of they foreign-made washing-machines...

Welcome to the energy-scarce future!

(What was the estimate? Equivalent of 250 personal slaves in order for each of us to live the fossil-fuelled lifestyle?)

[RenewableCandy]

No it's 150 for Americans and about half that for us Brits. But yeah, still silly numbers.

[adam2]

I have my doubt about the effectivness of government measures to reduce electricity demand.
Doubling the price would help but would be electoral suicide.

The last attempt at electricity saving was a partial ban on the manufacture or import of some of the most energy wasting electric lamps, this caused howels of outrage and was and still is widely flouted.

Building regulations also require that a certain proportion of lighting be energy efficient in new or refurbished properties, this is widely disliked and evaded. All "good" builders and architects know ways round the rules.

[Little John]

I have my doubt about the effectivness of government measures to reduce electricity demand.
Doubling the price would help but would be electoral suicide.

The last attempt at electricity saving was a partial ban on the manufacture or import of some of the most energy wasting electric lamps, this caused howels of outrage and was and still is widely flouted.

Building regulations also require that a certain proportion of lighting be energy efficient in new or refurbished properties, this is widely disliked and evaded. All "good" builders and architects know ways round the rules.

The trouble is, most energy saving light bulbs are energy saving for a reason. They're shit at providing adequate light. In my lounge, we have to put on about three CFLs around the room if we wish to not spend the evening in a dull, cold gloom. I'm not alone in this. Everyone I know feels the same way about CFLs.

I'm not suggesting that, king-Canute-like, we should ignore the fact that we will have to consume less energy as time goes on. I'm simply saying that we should be little surprised that people will look for ways around the low energy lighting regs for the reasons I have mentioned if they can and if it is affordable to do so.

[JavaScriptDonkey]

+1

A CFL in a desk lamp is about adequate but for lighting a room from a pendant they are useless.

[adam2]

I find the dislike for CFL a little suprising.
I would enquire of the two previous posters, are you using CFLs of reputable make and ample wattage ?

A room lit by a single 11 watt CFL will indeed present a rather sad and gloomy appearence unless it is a very small room and decorated in light colours. The light is ample for safe movement and rough work but not really adequate for normal activities whilst times are normal.

If an average size room is to be well lit from a single CFL then I would recomend 23 watts as a minimum, and 30 watts might be better.
Remembering that with incandescents, 100 watts was often regarded as a minimum for main living rooms, and that a 23 watt CFL is broadly similar to 100 watt incandescent, and 30 watts appreciably brighter.

I can remember a large but by no means exceptional or palatial living room being lit by a fitting containing 6 lamps each of 40 or 60 watts. Suitable CFL replacements for a 6 lamp fitting might be 11 watts or 15 watts.

One can of course manage with far less light and it would be prudent to be prepared to so do, but whilst times are normal, ample lighting is good.

[vtsnowedin]

No it's 150 for Americans and about half that for us Brits. But yeah, still silly numbers.

I suppose that includes a dozen to bring me salad from California and grapes from Chile mid winter. I suppose like animal powered farming one would need a third of them to feed and cloth the other two thirds that are actually supplying my needs. What a logistics nightmare?

[JavaScriptDonkey]

I find the dislike for CFL a little suprising.
I would enquire of the two previous posters, are you using CFLs of reputable make and ample wattage ?

Osrams & Phillips.

Mostly 18W with a few 20W.

11W units in desk lamps.

I think it's more the nature of the light rather than the wattage. It's probably the peaky spectral irradiance of the CFLs that we are seeing. A bit like listening to music with only tweeters and woofers.

[Little John]

I find the dislike for CFL a little suprising.
I would enquire of the two previous posters, are you using CFLs of reputable make and ample wattage ?

Osrams & Phillips.

Mostly 18W with a few 20W.

11W units in desk lamps.

I think it's more the nature of the light rather than the wattage. It's probably the peaky spectral irradiance of the CFLs that we are seeing. A bit like listening to music with only tweeters and woofers.

Yep, I find the light given off by them weird no matter what the wattage. LEDs are better. But they're still "cold".

I know it's not the wattage because occasionally I put a couple of oil lamps on in the lounge. The wattage equivalent given off them is certainly lower than the CFLs, but the quality of the light is better.

[RenewableCandy]

I feel that way about leds. In their light, no matter how bright it may be, I completely lose the ability to judge distance. This is weird and, since a lot of cyclists now use leds, dangerous.

For the cfls, one problem is that they throw out a much larger proportion of their light sideways than old-fashioned lightbulbs do. The usual type of lamps (standard lamps etc) are kind-of the wrong way round for this.

Also, cfls don't (usually) die, they just fade. We had a load for 6 years and it was only when we replaced some that died in a voltage surge that we realised how dim all the rest had become.

As if that wasn't enough, individuals' ability to see in not-perfectly-bright light fades with age. I've yet to hear someone in their 20s complaining about cfls being dimmer.

[Tarrel]

We've just switched to LEDs in our kitchen / dining room / hall - a large open plan area with 12 halogen spots. These each had a 50W halogen bulb in when we first bought the property. We've gradually moved to 35W, then B&Q "Eco halogens", which were 28W but with the light equivalent of 35W. These were excellent, with a great, really white light. The only problem was they lasted literally 5 minutes before blowing. I suspect they achieve the energy-saving by using thinner filaments.

Anyway, we've now moved to 5W LEDs - a big investment, but I'm hoping for a fairly quick payback. Trouble is, we have thick walls, small windows and are at the bottom of a hill. Plus, the sun doesn't get more than 8 degrees above the horizon in the depths of winter here. So we run the lights pretty much any time we're in the room, which is most of the time as it's where the stove is!

The LEDs are actually pretty good. Definitely not as "grey" as CFLs, instant-on and near-daylight in colour. Next step is to paint the walls with Dulux "Light and Space". This is apparently a great product and by no means a gimmick. Their advice to professional specifiers is that you can reduce window area by 25% and achieve same ambient light levels due to the higher reflectivity - but it looks like a matt finish. Again, expensive compared to regular paint, but getting light into the house is a major issue for us, so we're prepared to live with it.

[plotter]

My kitchen has 6 x 11w crompton cfl's which I find perfectly acceptable, yes they do start off dim but by the time I've filled the kettle or got out the pans I need they are fully bright. Other rooms have Osram 20w pendant lights which I also find acceptable for reading but not for sewing.
I quite like the light given by cfl's.