Let's see what the Conservatives and the Labour Party have in common shall we?
Privatising benefits by ending sickness benefits and making it incumbent upon the individual to take out income protectuin - CHECK
Selling off the sick and disbaled and forcing them to underego a sham assessment that finds even the terminally ill 'fit for work' - CHECK
Privatising the NHS - Tories overtly; Labour covertly - CHECK
Workfare - sending free workers to companies that donate to them - CHECK
Vilifying the unemployed, poor, disabled, sick etc - CHECK
Failing to commit to full employment - CHECK
I could go on, but there's not much point is there - both parties are in hock to corporations and bankers and couldn't give a toss about the ordinary person.
Reading the posts from the Guardian readers, it is striking how many agree that Labour and the Tories are all part of the same neo-liberal establishment agenda. Is this finally the time that the Left will start to wake up and shake the establishment.
Of course, I expect a wave of pro Ed Miliband guff about how he is a real socialist and going to change things. Yeah right.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
No mainstream party is able to shake up 'the establishment' because they are part of 'the establishment' and, just like the population at large they just can't get their heads around the idea that the model of endless growth is going to fall to pieces thanks to overpopulation, peak oil, climate change etc etc.
boisdevie wrote: just like the population at large they just can't get their heads around the idea that the model of endless growth is going to fall to pieces thanks to overpopulation, peak oil, climate change etc etc.
Its not that they can't get their heads around it, its that they are really not interested in analysising in depth what's really going on; most people are only interested in the here and now (next beer, winning on the lottery, whats going on in eastenders, who is the winner of X factor, etc) or if they do understand what you say its shrug shoulders, oh well what can I do about it anyway.
An additional factor shaping the party’s thinking is the position of the Liberal Democrats. Nick Clegg and Vince Cable have quietly accepted Osborne’s post-election spending limits and Labour wants to avoid a situation in which the two governing parties unite during the election campaign to portray its leaders as fiscal fantasists, a trick they performed so successfully in the early months of the coalition.
A promise to stick to the Tories’ baseline would not entail supporting all of the cuts proposed by Osborne; rather, Labour will need to replace any cuts that it rejects with tax rises or cuts of equivalent value. While acknowledging that it cannot avoid austerity, Labour would vow to distribute the pain more fairly, ensuring that the richest bear a greater burden. The party will almost certainly pledge to reintroduce the 50p top rate of income tax and adopt some version of the Lib Dems’ “mansion tax”. Miliband and his advisers are encouraged by last year’s electoral success of François Hollande and Barack Obama, both of whom won office on a platform of higher taxes for the well-off.
Yet the scale of the fiscal mess that the party will inherit is such that squeezing the rich will not be enough. The Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts that in 2014-2015 the deficit will be 5.2 per cent, the largest in the western world. At some point before the next election, Balls and Miliband will need to explain to their party what is only dimly understood at present: not only will Labour be unable to reverse all of the coalition’s cuts, it will need to impose more of its own. Something close to an all-out war could result. For this reason, among others, David Cameron and George Osborne will continue to appear unreasonably cheerful in 2013. Most of their tough decisions are behind them; Labour’s are all still to come.
Wow. Startling stuff from the left-wing rag the Statesman. Basically admitting that a future Labour government will implement even more cuts if they win the next election.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
The birds that they set free in their thirteen years in power are now coming home to roost. It's a bit ironic that Balls and Milliband, who both worked for Grasping Gordon, are now the people who will likely have to pick up the pieces.
We have to go back further than thirteen years, to Thatcher and Reagan and the political culture they grew up in. Balls, Milliband, Brown, just wannabes.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
boisdevie wrote: just like the population at large they just can't get their heads around the idea that the model of endless growth is going to fall to pieces thanks to overpopulation, peak oil, climate change etc etc.
Its not that they can't get their heads around it, its that they are really not interested in analysising in depth what's really going on; most people are only interested in the here and now (next beer, winning on the lottery, whats going on in eastenders, who is the winner of X factor, etc) or if they do understand what you say its shrug shoulders, oh well what can I do about it anyway.
I would say that 95% or more of the population are simply not aware of the economic growth model or why it is doomed to failure. Certainly in my circle of friends and acquantinces, very few would be aware of the endless growth paradigm and the very real and current threats to the continuance of that model and our way of life.
I say to (some) people we have had 70 years of growth (since WW2) and now we have started 70 years of decline. I fundamentally believe this is the situation.
kenneal - lagger wrote:The birds that they set free in their thirteen years in power are now coming home to roost. It's a bit ironic that Balls and Milliband, who both worked for Grasping Gordon, are now the people who will likely have to pick up the pieces.
That is not up to your usual standard of posts Ken. Surely we all know that it wasn't the Labour party who started the global decline that is now well in place. You sound like one of the Tory politicians who says that all the economic problems the UK are experiencing today were caused by the last couple of Governments...... but Brown certainly made some poor decisions in his time, as did Thatcher!
emordnilap wrote:We have to go back further than thirteen years, to Thatcher and Reagan and the political culture they grew up in. Balls, Milliband, Brown, just wannabes.
Agreed. In fact we probably should have realised in the 70s that the world faced insurmountable problems in the future based on the current energy resources.
Limits to Growth was the real fountain of knowledge in my books (scuse the pun), along with Hubert King's analysis of finite fossil fuels and of course the Oil supply blips that occured along with high inflation for many years. I am sure there were more warning signs, but these are the ones that jump to mind. All very easy to say in hindsight of course.
emordnilap wrote:We have to go back further than thirteen years, to Thatcher and Reagan and the political culture they grew up in. Balls, Milliband, Brown, just wannabes.
Agreed. In fact we probably should have realised in the 70s that the world faced insurmountable problems in the future based on the current energy resources.
Didn't Jimmy Carter try to tell America / the world?
extractorfan wrote:Didn't Jimmy Carter try to tell America / the world?
He did.
The truth doesn't get you (re)elected.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
The birds that they set free in their thirteen years in power are now coming home to roost. It's a bit ironic that Balls and Milliband, who both worked for Grasping Gordon, are now the people who will likely have to pick up the pieces.
....
We have to go back further than thirteen years, to Thatcher and Reagan and the political culture they grew up in. Balls, Milliband, Brown, just wannabes.
Behave, the pair of you. You both know it's nothing to do with either Labour or Tory (or Liberal). It's about peak oil and and a financial system that requires infinite growth from finite resources. The parties are now engaged in a game of pass the parcel, hoping the music doesn't stop while it's in their hands, because they really don't want to know what's inside.
