2012: Will it be the end of the world as we know it?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Dec 2012, 10:37

UndercoverElephant wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote: However, assuming that rhino can be viably farmed and can also be farmed in such a way as to not deprive the indigenous population of access to essential renewable resources, then I agree, farming them for their horns would make some sense.
Apart from the fact that rhino horn is chemically the same as the horns and claws of most other animals, including human fingernails, and has no actual medicinal properties at all, making the entire operation a stupid waste of time.

Of course. But, then, there are a lot of human activities that are deeply stupid. It's one of the paradoxes that arises from having preposterously large brains. The cleverer we get, the greater our capacity for ever more complex forms of stupidity and self-delusion it would seem.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 06 Dec 2012, 12:42

Halfbreed wrote:
stevecook wrote: The free market is dumb, in other words.
Maybe. But it seems to work for more people than it doesn't work for,

No it doesn't.

Halfbreed · Post by **Halfbreed** » 06 Dec 2012, 13:58

stevecook172001 wrote:
Halfbreed wrote:Sustainability is an illusion of time. Nothing is sustainable, not you, not me, not the food we grow, nor the planet we live on or the sun powering it. A new metric is needed because once you realize that sustainability is time dependent, baceteria in th ptri dish are sustainable, as long as the sugar holds out, Easter islanders are sustainable, as long as there is wood around to use, I am perfectly sustainable in the next 12 hours because I have all the beer I need. Humans are sustainable for fuel in the next 2 weeks because of what is in storage. Mankind is sutainable over the next year because there is no singularity to destroy the joint near term. It's nothing but an illusion. Looks good while you are in it...but then one day...poof.
Translation: "I accept the "free-market" is unsustainable. But, I don't care since it benefits me."

Care doesn't enter into it, because in some cases we do, and we do something about it, and in some cases we don't. But in all cases, it does benefit me. And you as well. And entire countries like England and America. And humanity in general. None of us have to care, some might, but certainly a vast majority benefit from it.

stevecook wrote:
......it seems to work for more people than it doesn't work for, and allows huge chunks of humanity to sit around mooching off the largesse of others, which might strike any other species on the planet as a pretty good deal, if they could accomplish the same thing.
Translation: "I accept the "free-market" is unfair. But, I don't care since it benefits me."

and you, and England and America, and a farmer in Argentina selling his tomatoes into the Central American produce co-op, and so on and so forth. It doesn't bother you to use fossil fuels to transmit and store your words for nothing but random conversation? Shouldn't you stop, if you did care? In the meantime you are using a device derived from fossil fuels, probably seeing them on a monitor built from the same thing? You benefit from the same thing just to do a HOBBY, and you simultaineously want to pretend that a regular guy who doesn't cares is somehow different from one who does, but certainly is using the same benefits, the same way, generated from the same system?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Dec 2012, 14:21

Halfbreed wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:
Halfbreed wrote:Sustainability is an illusion of time. Nothing is sustainable, not you, not me, not the food we grow, nor the planet we live on or the sun powering it. A new metric is needed because once you realize that sustainability is time dependent, baceteria in th ptri dish are sustainable, as long as the sugar holds out, Easter islanders are sustainable, as long as there is wood around to use, I am perfectly sustainable in the next 12 hours because I have all the beer I need. Humans are sustainable for fuel in the next 2 weeks because of what is in storage. Mankind is sutainable over the next year because there is no singularity to destroy the joint near term. It's nothing but an illusion. Looks good while you are in it...but then one day...poof.
Translation: "I accept the "free-market" is unsustainable. But, I don't care since it benefits me."
Care doesn't enter into it, because in some cases we do, and we do something about it, and in some cases we don't. But in all cases, it does benefit me. And you as well. And entire countries like England and America. And humanity in general. None of us have to care, some might, but certainly a vast majority benefit from it.

stevecook wrote:
......it seems to work for more people than it doesn't work for, and allows huge chunks of humanity to sit around mooching off the largesse of others, which might strike any other species on the planet as a pretty good deal, if they could accomplish the same thing.
Translation: "I accept the "free-market" is unfair. But, I don't care since it benefits me."
and you, and England and America, and a farmer in Argentina selling his tomatoes into the Central American produce co-op, and so on and so forth. It doesn't bother you to use fossil fuels to transmit and store your words for nothing but random conversation? Shouldn't you stop, if you did care? In the meantime you are using a device derived from fossil fuels, probably seeing them on a monitor built from the same thing? You benefit from the same thing just to do a HOBBY, and you simultaineously want to pretend that a regular guy who doesn't cares is somehow different from one who does, but certainly is using the same benefits, the same way, generated from the same system?

Translation: "I know it is unsustainable and I know it is unfair. However, since I benefit from it, I don't give shit. Furthermore, since you benefit from it, you have no right to point out it's unsustainability or unfairness to me".

I think you may be on the wrong forum Halfbreed.

Kentucky Fried Panda · Post by **Kentucky Fried Panda** » 06 Dec 2012, 17:27

Soon.

JavaScriptDonkey · Post by **JavaScriptDonkey** » 06 Dec 2012, 23:17

Ahhhh.

Tulips?

Halfbreed · Post by **Halfbreed** » 07 Dec 2012, 23:53

stevecook172001 wrote:Translation: "I know it is unsustainable and I know it is unfair. However, since I benefit from it, I don't give shit. Furthermore, since you benefit from it, you have no right to point out it's unsustainability or unfairness to me".

Not quite. You have ever right to point it out. And a reasonable person has every right to notice that those doing the pointing are preaching but not practicing. Sort of hard to take someone seriously decrying the terrible nature of...the society, systems and culture which made that very decrying possible.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 08 Dec 2012, 00:47

Halfbreed wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:Translation: "I know it is unsustainable and I know it is unfair. However, since I benefit from it, I don't give shit. Furthermore, since you benefit from it, you have no right to point out it's unsustainability or unfairness to me".

Not quite. You have ever right to point it out. And a reasonable person has every right to notice that those doing the pointing are preaching but not practicing. Sort of hard to take someone seriously decrying the terrible nature of...the society, systems and culture which made that very decrying possible.

Is that all you have? You really must try harder HalfBreed.

If a system exists that makes it exceedingly difficult for any individual to operate outside of it, that does not logically render illegitimate any criticism of that system by anyone who exists inside it.

The cheap rhetoric you are attempting to employ is exactly the same kind of bullshit that was no doubt used against white proponents of slavery reform. After all, who were they to complain about a system they were clearly benefiting from...eh?

Pathetic.

Halfbreed · Post by **Halfbreed** » 08 Dec 2012, 21:22

stevecook172001 wrote: The cheap rhetoric you are attempting to employ is exactly the same kind of bullshit that was no doubt used against white proponents of slavery reform. After all, who were they to complain about a system they were clearly benefiting from...eh?

Pathetic.

You are describing the system you are as invested in as well as most everyone else. You think it is pathetic? As long as you use a computer, and fossil fuel fired electricity to run it, and blast your electrons out across the world, you and me fall into the same box, the only difference being one of us knows it, and the other thinks that whining aloud while using that computer and those fuels makes them less morally repugnant for being there.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 08 Dec 2012, 22:15

Halfbreed wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote: The cheap rhetoric you are attempting to employ is exactly the same kind of bullshit that was no doubt used against white proponents of slavery reform. After all, who were they to complain about a system they were clearly benefiting from...eh?

Pathetic.
You are describing the system you are as invested in as well as most everyone else. You think it is pathetic? As long as you use a computer, and fossil fuel fired electricity to run it, and blast your electrons out across the world, you and me fall into the same box, the only difference being one of us knows it, and the other thinks that whining aloud while using that computer and those fuels makes them less morally repugnant for being there.

No, I think your debating tactics are pathetic and so can anyone else who cares to read this topic. You also know them to be pathetic yourself, which is why you are now obfuscating by deliberate misdirection.

You're going to need to up your game, I'm afraid. Until you do, I am not going to waste any more energy on your posts.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 09 Dec 2012, 00:13

OK...so...back on topic...?

http://www.panznerinsights.com/2012/12/ ... -you-look/

s the chart shows, gauges of implied volatility levels for equity, bond, currency, gold, and oil markets are at or near multi-month lows, indicating that “the crowd” is unanimous in its belief that nothing untoward is going to happen in the immediate future.

Should we be worried?

11 days to go.

mr brightside · Post by **mr brightside** » 19 Dec 2012, 22:15

I'm going to be in the Lake District on 'the big day' so at least i can be boiled to death in nice surroundings. Come to think about it if it's all going to kick off at 00:00:01Hrs 21/12/12 then there might not be any point in me fuelling the car for the journey, as i could be eaten by Locusts in the middle of the night and waste my money. I think i need to see an itinerary so i know if there's any point in turning the heating down for the weekend.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 19 Dec 2012, 22:22

Oh crikey! I've just realised that Marvellous Other 1/2 will be in Essex

mr brightside · Post by **mr brightside** » 19 Dec 2012, 22:27

I don't have an other half, but perhaps i should tell the girl i've always loved that i love her. On second thoughts, if we all survive i'll feel more stupid and desperate than the people at the bus stop in that little french town that's safe whatever happens!

nexus · Post by **nexus** » 19 Dec 2012, 22:35

Hey Mr B -you should tell her anyway, unless she's unavailable.......