The slow collapse of the European Dream and the seeds of war

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 03 Nov 2012, 17:57

All the more reason to actively support the EU.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 03 Nov 2012, 20:51

Why support something thats going to die anyway

things built on a big scale cornucopian things are going to die .
spanish people looking for work in norway I'd say is part of the migrations of peoples thats coming, the rise of xenophobia in greece and elsewhere is pretty predictable

MisterE · Post by **MisterE** » 03 Nov 2012, 21:37

Why is this news, anyone with half a brain knows that when those in power take things to the max profit wise, they have to empty the shelves so they can start the cycle over again for their offspring and the chosen few. There will be a mother of a world war all prefabricated, I just hope I'm long gone from old age when it happens.

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » 04 Nov 2012, 08:42

MisterE wrote:Why is this news, anyone with half a brain knows that when those in power take things to the max profit wise, they have to empty the shelves so they can start the cycle over again for their offspring and the chosen few. There will be a mother of a world war all prefabricated, I just hope I'm long gone from old age when it happens.

I fear you're right but hope you're wrong.

Ironically we can achieve the same economic goals as a World War by introducing global family planning and injecting vast amounts of money into the world's economies targeted at useful infastructure well insulated homes, microgeneration technology, even maglev trains if you want. Add in a couple of big science projects like Skylon, limb regeneration and/or room temperature superconductors and you'd have a surge in living standards, reduced population globally and several industries up and running. Just like America in the 50s without the debt and misery.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 05 Nov 2012, 14:30

RalphW wrote:
energy-village wrote: Those who have attempted to trade oil in other currencies have usually come unstuck PDQ.
I think I heard on the world service last night that Iran was prepared to trade oil for gold (I was half asleep). This has been rumoured before, because of the US sanctions making dollar trading harder for them.

This is rapidly turning into a self-fulfilling prophesy

US - Trade in dollars or we will attack.

US - Stop building nuclear technology or we will attack

US - We are applying sanctions to stop you trading your oil in dollars

US - You stopped trading in dollars - don't say we didn't warn you!

The possibility looms that the US will undertake yet another criminal invasion of a Muslim country, recapitulating its war crimes in Afghanistan and Iraq. The real analogy for Iran is wartime. During war, all countries ration scarce goods, and people unite and accept sacrifice in the face of the enemy. This is the only solution for Iran today unless it agrees to join the US-dollar denominated empire as a junior member. Hanke’s patient could well die under the ‘anesthesia’ of US-Israeli bombs, but the Iranian people are proud and will fight for their dignity till their dying breath. The worries about hyperinflation will then pale in comparison to the real “foreign factors”, and the US will face the revenge of history for its criminal actions.

From here.

In a nutshell, any country that wants to purchase oil from an oil producing country has to do so in U.S. dollars. This is a long standing agreement within all oil exporting nations, aka OPEC, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. The UK for example, cannot simply buy oil from Saudi Arabia by exchanging British pounds. Instead, the UK must exchange its pounds for U.S. dollars. The major exception at present is, of course, Iran.

This means that every country in the world that imports oil—which is the vast majority of the world's nations—has to have immense quantities of dollars in reserve. These dollars of course are not hidden under the proverbial national mattress. They are invested. And because they are U.S. dollars, they are invested in U.S. Treasury bills and other interest bearing securities that can be easily converted to purchase dollar-priced commodities like oil. This is what has allowed the U.S. to run up trillions of dollars of debt: the rest of the world simply buys up that debt in the form of U.S. interest bearing securities.

From here.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 06 Nov 2012, 01:43

Lord Beria3 wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... rties.html

Superb article outlining how Europe is drifting back to the dark days of the Thirties.

What's happening? An article in the Mail that most of us can agree with!!

Totally_Baffled · Post by **Totally_Baffled** » 06 Nov 2012, 07:04

Reference the reserve currency thing.

The reserve currency allows the US to run up trillions in debt.

But hold on a minute - are there not loads of western nations with more debt - and they dont have he worlds reserve currency and yet their currencies have not (yet) collapsed into worthlessness - the UK included!

How does that work then?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Nov 2012, 08:50

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Lord Beria3 wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... rties.html

Superb article outlining how Europe is drifting back to the dark days of the Thirties.
What's happening? An article in the Mail that most of us can agree with!!

Meanwhile, in that article, not a single mention of someone closer to home whose organisation is the epitome of free-speech and the exposing of the dirty secrets of those who would rule us. It's funny how the greatest heavyweight political ire is reserved for Jonny-foreigner. But, when a critical eye is turned on matters closer to home, the primary focus is on sex and fiddling expenses.

Funny that.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 06 Nov 2012, 22:18

Totally_Baffled wrote:Reference the reserve currency thing.

The reserve currency allows the US to run up trillions in debt.

But hold on a minute - are there not loads of western nations with more debt - and they dont have he worlds reserve currency and yet their currencies have not (yet) collapsed into worthlessness - the UK included!

How does that work then?

I'm not aware of any countries with a debt bigger than the US's - but I could be wrong.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 06 Nov 2012, 22:43

Tarrel wrote:
Totally_Baffled wrote:Reference the reserve currency thing.

The reserve currency allows the US to run up trillions in debt.

But hold on a minute - are there not loads of western nations with more debt - and they dont have he worlds reserve currency and yet their currencies have not (yet) collapsed into worthlessness - the UK included!

How does that work then?
I'm not aware of any countries with a debt bigger than the US's - but I could be wrong.

I suppose you are right on that. After all the US throws around trillions while other countries fuss over billions. It would be interesting to see a world ranking of countries debts as a percentage of their total assets or net worth.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 07 Nov 2012, 09:36

The US has lots of assets. Massive amounts of coal and natural gas and still the world's third largest oil producer. Massive agricultural heartland, plenty of mineral reserves, good road system, good potential for solar PV renewable energy, limited potential for wind, excellent hydro energy.

These are enough collateral to hold against the world's largest debt.

However, lousy trains, hopelessly energy inefficient, dodgy education and health systems, increasing problems with climate change. Nothing that could n't be managed with a decent bit of leadership.

Culture of ultimate selfishness, at least in the ruling classes. Population dumbed down, and manipulated into a belief system and a political system with makes change almost impossible. Level of gun ownership (and a culture of using them) that quickly reduces emergencies into disasters. Level of entitlement expectation that would make a Roman dole-receiver blush.

Doomed.