British democracy in terminal decline, warns report

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 04 Oct 2012, 08:18

Well, there haven't been any wars within the EU area since 1945.

(But that might be because of the statue of an elephant I have.)

Hagrid · Post by **Hagrid** » 04 Oct 2012, 08:40

biffvernon wrote:Well, there haven't been any wars within the EU area since 1945.

(But that might be because of the statue of an elephant I have.)

thats only because they are using finance now instead of bullets and bombs, they are taking over this country by economic means.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 04 Oct 2012, 13:57

Hagrid wrote: they are using finance now instead of bullets and bombs, they are taking over this country by economic means.

Sounds like an improvement, but who are the 'they' and which the 'this'? I thought London was the financial capital of the world.

Hagrid · Post by **Hagrid** » 04 Oct 2012, 14:42

biffvernon wrote:
Hagrid wrote: they are using finance now instead of bullets and bombs, they are taking over this country by economic means.
Sounds like an improvement, but who are the 'they' and which the 'this'? I thought London was the financial capital of the world.

"They" are the EU- which as we know is run by Germany, and "This" country is the UK-as if you didnt know!

Kentucky Fried Panda · Post by **Kentucky Fried Panda** » 04 Oct 2012, 17:06

I know who would stop those pesky Germans...

Hagrid · Post by **Hagrid** » 04 Oct 2012, 17:42

Kentucky Fried Panda wrote:I know who would stop those pesky Germans...

damn right!!!

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 04 Oct 2012, 17:51

DON'T PANIC MR MAINWARING!!

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 04 Oct 2012, 18:40

Democracy isnt elections

Democracy

Demo
Kratos

People
Power

The British Government has been reducing people power almost without pause for a thousand years.
The EU is a continuation of that, but in practice, little different than the "standards commission" that can unelect councillors, or the national curriculum, that ensures everyone is taught state dogma.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 04 Oct 2012, 23:35

The EU could be truly great with macromangement at the Europe level and micro stuff being done at the regional level. Stuff like energy, resource management decided upon by experts. A different socioeconomic system. EU level full of scientists and experts, balanced with local democracy. The EU could still be key in how we deal with peak oil effects. Well, you never know.

mobbsey · Post by **mobbsey** » 05 Oct 2012, 01:44

biffvernon wrote:Well, there haven't been any wars within the EU area since 1945.

Class war? Battle of Orgreave?

Some wars don't require tanks and bullets to be fought, just the systematic indifference to injustice by those who should know better.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 05 Oct 2012, 06:45

Yes but those weren't the sort of wars that the EU was designed to stop. You mustn't blame an institution to failing to do something it wasn't meant to do.

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » 05 Oct 2012, 07:57

biffvernon wrote:Yes but those weren't the sort of wars that the EU was designed to stop. You mustn't blame an institution to failing to do something it wasn't meant to do.

With respect to the EU I don't think that's a valid point. The rise of the US military machine from the ruins of Vietnam has made them the 'Class Leader' in offensive actions. The EU goes along with them, mostly. I concede that the EU hasn't started any wars yet but that'll be a matter of time IMHO.

If history has taught us one thing it's that the next war will be different from the last. The US is engaged in very expensive operations to secure energy supplies for it's commercial interests. The EU could, very soon, be doing the same albeit on a smaller scale.

I believe that the EU has simply allowed governments, so predisposed, to remove the checks that protected their working population from exploitation. The poorer get paid less to make them work harder. The rich get more pay to work harder. Unelected and effectively untouchable Commissioners can do what they please. Sounds like an Unethical Company to me. The MEPs may be great but the Commissioners have the power. Bit like Rupert Murdoch in his company....

Yves75 · Post by **Yves75** » 05 Oct 2012, 09:50

Snail wrote:The EU could be truly great with macromangement at the Europe level and micro stuff being done at the regional level. Stuff like energy, resource management decided upon by experts. A different socioeconomic system. EU level full of scientists and experts, balanced with local democracy. The EU could still be key in how we deal with peak oil effects. Well, you never know.

Always this view that technoscience could help (or that there are "solutions" ...)
The problem is political and economical (or ecological in a basic scientific sense) whatever way you look at it, technology if anything can only improve efficiency.
And at that point the best policy would probably be to favor efficiency "solutions" be it on conservation or alternative production side, WITHOUT HAVING TO DEFINE THEM.
And for this the best way is most probably increasing volume based taxes on fossile fuels (or raw materials in general), cutting taxes on work in parallel, and maintaining a good level of redistribution.
(this making sense at country or European level).

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 05 Oct 2012, 10:40

Biff, funny how many of these threads seem to end with 'TEQs', innit?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 05 Oct 2012, 17:45

SleeperService wrote: With respect to the EU I don't think that's a valid point.

My point was that the EU was designed to prevent wars within the EU area between the member states. It can be argued that it has been successful in this limited goal. Going to war against others is something quite else.