Assange Watch

[frank_begbie]

Phone in on 5 live now about it.

Edit. might have just been the first half hour. (only heard the last few minutes.)

Doesn't seem to be ongoing.

Have to have a listen on iplayer tomorrow.

[biffvernon]

It will be awful - I'm going to bed....

[Little John]

and at the same time as shoring up their own wealth and power at the expense of the impoverishment of the majority, they are also putting in place the tools of repression that they know they will need

But Steve, has it ever been any different?

Over the last 5 to 10 thousand years; no, it has been more or less constant apart from the brief historical bubble of greater freedoms for people over the last 200 years or so. And, even then, only for about a third of all humanity.

Should we simply allow humanity to fall back into the night? Should we allow the fragile flower of liberty, so hard fought for, to wither and die?

Should we should just give up that easily?

[frank_begbie]

The industrially driven growth of the last 200 years or so is drawing to a close as we hit the global resource buffers. The party is over and our economies are starting to collapse. However, our elites know full well the hard times to come and at the same time as shoring up their own wealth and power at the expense of the impoverishment of the majority, they are also putting in place the tools of repression that they know they will need when the people start to really kick off, as they are now doing all around the world. The front line of attack on free speech itself. Assange, Manning and others like them are on that front line.

This is the beginning of a war between the people and those who rule them.

But what will the elite have to offer the oppressors that they will do their bidding?

Money? Food? Stocks and shares?

[UndercoverElephant]

What is different this time is that the people have far more control over the flow of information, and a far greater capacity for non-mediated, direct communication with each other. Throughout the whole of human history, those who controlled the information also had most of the power.

[vtsnowedin]

[Should we simply allow humanity to fall back into the night? Should we allow the fragile flower of liberty, so hard fought for, to wither and die?

Should we should just give up that easily?

Your sounding like an American politician beating the drum for war today. Are you feeling alright?

[extractorfan]

What is different this time is that the people have far more control over the flow of information, and a far greater capacity for non-mediated, direct communication with each other. Throughout the whole of human history, those who controlled the information also had most of the power.

There's a part of me that finds this whole thing exciting. Watching the MSM constantly talking about the sex charges and ignoring the other fact of his being a bit of a public enemy, then on the other hand it seems the vast majority of people are just not listening to them.

It's seems so obvious there's an agenda it's not worthy of comment. I kind of like that.

[Little John]

[Should we simply allow humanity to fall back into the night? Should we allow the fragile flower of liberty, so hard fought for, to wither and die?

Should we should just give up that easily?

Your sounding like an American politician beating the drum for war today. Are you feeling alright?

I am of the opinion that we are seeing the beginning of a full retrenchment away from democracy and liberty. Not just here and the US, but across all Western democracies. I think that we will lose those liberties unless we are prepared to fight for them.

I think it's that serious

[madibe]

Steve, I agree with you in principle, however the last 200 years or so have been the blip. Coincidence that this falls neatly into the industrial revolution, the age of cheap energy?

However, no - I don't think that liberty should be given up. My fear is that it will just be taken back.

UE wrote:

What is different this time is that the people have far more control over the flow of information

I do not think this is as clear cut as it would appear.

If the information (sources and distribution) needs to be severed from the people then it will be. Disinformation and information overload are of much more use at present (to the Overlords), since it keeps the wheels in motion without a larger civil unrest.

Coming back on topic, we can see this happening with the Asange situation. There is a whole raft of disinformation going on, enough to polarise public opinion. One could call it 'selective reporting'. Just the tip of the iceberg though.

So, if you can't physically take away peoples TV, radio, phones, i-pads, internet, gizzmos etc...then just fill them full of complete twaddle.

[Little John]

Steve, I agree with you in principle, however the last 200 years or so have been the blip. Coincidence that this falls neatly into the industrial revolution, the age of cheap energy?

However, no - I don't think that liberty should be given up. My fear is that it will just be taken back.

UE wrote:

What is different this time is that the people have far more control over the flow of information

I do not think this is as clear cut as it would appear.

If the information (sources and distribution) needs to be severed from the people then it will be. Disinformation and information overload are of much more use at present (to the Overlords), since it keeps the wheels in motion without a larger civil unrest.

Coming back on topic, we can see this happening with the Asange situation. There is a whole raft of disinformation going on, enough to polarise public opinion. One could call it 'selective reporting'. Just the tip of the iceberg though.

So, if you can't physically take away peoples TV, radio, phones, i-pads, internet, gizzmos etc...then just fill them full of complete twaddle.

Yes, I agree, information overload and disinformation are the tools that are being massively employed regarding the Assange case.

[Little John]

I note all of the major daily broadsheets plus the BBC front page has now dropped all coverage of Assange way down from the leaders.

So, it goes from massive front page news to F--k all in the space of 24 hours does it?

What the above tells me is that it has been decided on high that the massive propoganda push against him is showing a serious risk of backfiring and so they are backing off

For now

I swear, this is being orchestrated at the highest level;

[UndercoverElephant]

If the information (sources and distribution) needs to be severed from the people then it will be.

You think they can/will shut down the internet?

Disinformation and information overload are of much more use at present (to the Overlords), since it keeps the wheels in motion without a larger civil unrest.

But those tactics are becoming steadily less effective as time goes by. All anybody actually has to do to find out what is really going on is to type the right questions into google and follow their nose. Right now only a small proportion of people are doing that, but as the global economic/political situation deteriorates, many more will join them.

Coming back on topic, we can see this happening with the Asange situation. There is a whole raft of disinformation going on, enough to polarise public opinion. One could call it 'selective reporting'. Just the tip of the iceberg though.

So, if you can't physically take away peoples TV, radio, phones, i-pads, internet, gizzmos etc...then just fill them full of complete twaddle.

That may work for a while, but we still live in a democracy (albeit subject to the bankster/megacorporation conspiracy to usurp democratic power.) Ultimately, if the politicians continue to side with the conspirators instead of the public, they will be voted from office and replaced with people who currently considered to be "extremists" of one sort or another - people who are not scared of taking on the conspirators. Those conspirators are actually under attack from both the extreme left and the extreme right. In Europe, most of the attacks are coming from the left. In the US, the attacks are coming from the right (people like Ron Paul, and others who view Wall Street and the US Federal Government as being every bit as monstrous as those of us on the left do, even though they'd advocate a very different system to replace it.)

[emordnilap]

The industrially driven growth of the last 200 years or so is drawing to a close as we hit the global resource buffers. The party is over and our economies are starting to collapse. However, our elites know full well the hard times to come and at the same time as shoring up their own wealth and power at the expense of the impoverishment of the majority, they are also putting in place the tools of repression that they know they will need when the people start to really kick off, as they are now doing all around the world. The front line of attack on free speech itself. Assange, Manning and others like them are on that front line.

This is the beginning of a war between the people and those who rule them.

Agreed. And it's a war run on massively unequal terms (what isn't these days?) - and pretty soon the best paid, most attractive jobs for young men will be of a military nature; indeed, judging by the numbers of people willing to oppress their own neighbours, it's already happening.

[raspberry-blower]

I note all of the major daily broadsheets plus the BBC front page has now dropped all coverage of Assange way down from the leaders.

So, it goes from massive front page news to **** all in the space of 24 hours does it?

What the above tells me is that it has been decided on high that the massive propoganda push against him is showing a serious risk of backfiring and so they are backing off

For now

I swear, this is being orchestrated at the highest level;

Time to revisit Media Lens: Incinerating Assange - the Liberal Media go to work

There is definitely an orchestrated campaign against Assange in the lame stream media

[emordnilap]

But what will the elite have to offer the oppressors that they will do their bidding?

Money? Food? Stocks and shares?

A job.