Ten Billion

extractorfan · Post by **extractorfan** » 14 Aug 2012, 14:57

nexus wrote:I agree that the least selfish path is to not have any kids, hard tho' that is.

If you have the ability to raise an intelligent, considerate, healthy person it is perhaps a duty to have a child!

frank_begbie · Post by **frank_begbie** » 14 Aug 2012, 15:00

stevecook172001 wrote:We need a worldwide plague. That's just about the only thing that will save the rest of life from the human race and the human race from itself.

Or a couple of icebergs to float into New York harbour

frank_begbie · Post by **frank_begbie** » 14 Aug 2012, 15:03

emordnilap wrote:One or two is fine, particularly if they turn out like you!

As for cars, every household has a minimum of one; I just thought through all the houses within about a mile radius and this is true. I only know of one person without a car; he hitches into town but I can rarely give him lifts as I cycle. Our nearest neighbour has two big vehicles for himself and his taxiing business, plus another he gets to use as part of another job. The next nearest neighbours have three vehicles between five of them, two of them big. Another house has three cars between three people, one of whom does not drive.

If they didn't have so much disposable income they couldn't do this.

The poor people are the rich peoples carbon tax.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 14 Aug 2012, 15:05

frank_begbie wrote:If they didn't have so much disposable income they couldn't do this.

This is true but don't worry, Frank; I predict that the amount of money in the Irish economy is going to be reduced by about a third during the next few years. That'll show 'em! (And me

).

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 14 Aug 2012, 21:06

emordnilap wrote:+1 to nexus. Do you consume dairy or leather? Any children?

For me, no to everything but the car (an efficient second-hand one which we barely use and I actually hate using; I especially hate paying tax and insurance - it should all be piled onto petrol) and animals, which we love. Dogs, cats, ducks, geese, quite a few of which simply come to lodge with us, without us seeking them out.

Hate to say this, but one dog, apparently, is worth two Ford Priuses in carbon footprint terms. A cat is worth one Ford Prius.

By the sounds of it, you probably have the carbon footprint equivalent of a European jet fighter in terms of the animals you own.....

Oh, and by the way, a hamster is worth one plasma TV.......apparently

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 14 Aug 2012, 21:19

nexus wrote:I understand that getting out to the country is hard without a car, I've used country bus services extensively and they are a nightmare. Could you share your car with someone else who doesn't need one very often either?

Not in my line of business. I'm a roving mushroom expert. I have serious problems with clients who don't have cars, because almost nowhere I can take people foraging is anywhere near a railway station, or bus service. And since the activity upon arrival involves a lot of walking, then walking to the meeting point is not much of an option.

For me, no car = no job.

Good point about kids. I'm guilty on that score, although wouldn't change for the world, but we did limit ourselves to one partly because of over population. I agree that the least selfish path is to not have any kids, hard tho' that is.

...although maybe I use it as an excuse to not do more.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 15 Aug 2012, 09:39

stevecook172001 wrote:
emordnilap wrote:+1 to nexus. Do you consume dairy or leather? Any children?

For me, no to everything but the car (an efficient second-hand one which we barely use and I actually hate using; I especially hate paying tax and insurance - it should all be piled onto petrol) and animals, which we love. Dogs, cats, ducks, geese, quite a few of which simply come to lodge with us, without us seeking them out.
Hate to say this, but one dog, apparently, is worth two Ford Priuses in carbon footprint terms. A cat is worth one Ford Prius.

By the sounds of it, you probably have the carbon footprint equivalent of a European jet fighter in terms of the animals you own.....

Oh, and by the way, a hamster is worth one plasma TV.......apparently

Surely it depends on what you're feeding them on, just as with human diets? Besides, one dog is worth far more than two Priuses!

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 15 Aug 2012, 09:54

emordnilap wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:
emordnilap wrote:+1 to nexus. Do you consume dairy or leather? Any children?

For me, no to everything but the car (an efficient second-hand one which we barely use and I actually hate using; I especially hate paying tax and insurance - it should all be piled onto petrol) and animals, which we love. Dogs, cats, ducks, geese, quite a few of which simply come to lodge with us, without us seeking them out.
Hate to say this, but one dog, apparently, is worth two Ford Priuses in carbon footprint terms. A cat is worth one Ford Prius.

By the sounds of it, you probably have the carbon footprint equivalent of a European jet fighter in terms of the animals you own.....

Oh, and by the way, a hamster is worth one plasma TV.......apparently
Surely it depends on what you're feeding them on, just as with human diets? Besides, one dog is worth far more than two Priuses!

Yeah, I guess it must depend of the source of the diet. The comparisons I quoted are, presumably, based on feeding them on propriety food products for such animals. If they are fed, alternatively, on food that is produced on site using low carbon farming methods, then the caparison will be completely erroneous,

frank_begbie · Post by **frank_begbie** » 15 Aug 2012, 10:11

What about the advantages owning a dog/cat can give?

Rather than coming home to an empty home (if you live alone), you have an eager happy dog wagging his tail just because you walked through the door.

For a few people that's the only reason they don't top themselves, or sink into the depths of despair.

I know, I've been there.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 15 Aug 2012, 12:58

Permaculture Mag once ran an excellent article about dogs. In it they pointed out that a dog can't digest grain, thus any pet-food with grain in will be nbg for said dog, giving rise to the sort of problems you'd get if you were a coeliac(sp?) person eating gluten. Not just guts problems, but arthritis and even cancer. I've not heard this point fro any other source so I stand to be put right by anyone who really knows (there's never been a RenewableMutt). But if you look at dogs in the grand evolutionary scheme of things, it makes perfect sense.

Anyway, the article recommended rabbits as the best food for dogs: as in find them, kill them (or let the dog oblige), then let the dog at them. Of course most dog owners aren't really in a position to do this, and some are probably too squeamish to boot! But the tale (tail?) of what happened when someone changed the diet of their previously unhealthy, in-pain and (let's face it) expensive-to-treat dog in the way recommended was just amazing.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 15 Aug 2012, 13:15

RenewableCandy wrote:Permaculture Mag once ran an excellent article about dogs. In it they pointed out that a dog can't digest grain, thus any pet-food with grain in will be nbg for said dog, giving rise to the sort of problems you'd get if you were a coeliac(sp?) person eating gluten. Not just guts problems, but arthritis and even cancer. I've not heard this point fro any other source so I stand to be put right by anyone who really knows (there's never been a RenewableMutt). But if you look at dogs in the grand evolutionary scheme of things, it makes perfect sense.

I'm not sure... During canid evolution there was a continual tendency for species to go extinct because of their over-dependence on meat. This is OK during the good times, but makes an animal vulnerable when times are harder. Our own native canid does not exclusively eat meat. Foxes will eat almost anything.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 15 Aug 2012, 13:15

RenewableCandy wrote:Anyway, the article recommended rabbits as the best food for dogs: as in find them, kill them (or let the dog oblige), then let the dog at them.

Dogs know this too. I cut a whole rabbit in half ( minus the head because there might be fragments of lead or copper in there ) and let them get on with it, they'll eat the lot. You have to remember to worm them regularly.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 15 Aug 2012, 13:35

Catweazle wrote:
RenewableCandy wrote:Anyway, the article recommended rabbits as the best food for dogs: as in find them, kill them (or let the dog oblige), then let the dog at them.
Dogs know this too. I cut a whole rabbit in half ( minus the head because there might be fragments of lead or copper in there ) and let them get on with it, they'll eat the lot. You have to remember to worm them regularly.

You remove the guts, I assume.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 15 Aug 2012, 14:00

Our late dog, healthy till he died aged 17, was pretty much vegetarian. I thought it quite unnatural but he got the runs every time we tried giving him meat.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 15 Aug 2012, 14:26

biffvernon wrote:Our late dog, healthy till he died aged 17, was pretty much vegetarian. I thought it quite unnatural but he got the runs every time we tried giving him meat.

Ours are semi-veggie but they'll eat anything, even the foil trays some food appears in.

Regarding grains, one of our dogs absolutely adores bread and will go to great lengths to steal it. Interesting subject. I've often thought we ought to just make a lot more food for ourselves and let them have whatever's leftover.