Electric bikes

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 02 Aug 2012, 11:07

emordnilap wrote:Heh heh: "This kit includes all the parts you need to convert your normal road or mountain bike into a green electric bike." So adding electric gubbins and batteries 'greens' your transport! Beware of spin absolutely everywhere, including your wheels.

Maybe they include a tin of green paint

.

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » 02 Aug 2012, 12:11

JohnB wrote:
emordnilap wrote:Heh heh: "This kit includes all the parts you need to convert your normal road or mountain bike into a green electric bike." So adding electric gubbins and batteries 'greens' your transport! Beware of spin absolutely everywhere, including your wheels.
Maybe they include a tin of green paint .

You cynics you

Thanks for clearing my question up people. Once I get my Chinese wheelbarrow built.... I've bookmarked the site and can see an electric contraption next.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 02 Aug 2012, 16:43

emordnilap wrote:
imakebiodiesel wrote:http://www.ebay.ie/itm/8Fun-26-Ebike-El ... 4ab3228865
Heh heh: "This kit includes all the parts you need to convert your normal road or mountain bike into a green electric bike." So adding electric gubbins and batteries 'greens' your transport! Beware of spin absolutely everywhere, including your wheels.

These kits don't make a "green" bike. That is, of course, ridiculous. What they potentially do, however, is to make you a greener commuter if you are able to extend the range of your bike such that you use your car far less frequently on longer distance/tight schedule journeys than you might otherwise have done.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 02 Aug 2012, 16:54

imakebiodiesel wrote:I went to the golden motors site and entered the same details as my own kit, the price they quoted incl shipping was 830 us dollars. Mine cost 600 euros here in Ireland.
I find 250 watt motor sufficient for my use. Im 6 foot and 14 stone. I cycle about 15 miles per trip. A 500w motor will provide you with more maximum power but will use up your battery power more quickly. so you may need a larger capacity battery.

That's not right, I am on Golden Motors right now and they have a 1000 watt brushless hub motor on there for 118 dollars. The same model in 500 watt is going for 100 dollars.

The specific model is: HBS36R. Click on the link, below, and press the hub motor button on the left to find it.

http://www.goldenmotor.com/

The motor controllers are selling on there for 395 dollars for a 48 volt one (which is what would be needed for a 1000 watt motor). The model of controller is: HPC300 Series

Again, follow the link and click on the controllers button

That's 513 dollars in total. Or 331 pounds sterling. That compares more than favourably against the £429 which is what the one your linked to cost. Unless, that is, their shipping costs are over a 100 quid. Even then, this is for a 1000 watt motor and controller as opposed to a 250 watt motor.

Unless, of course, I am looking at the wrong controller for a 1000 watt motor

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 02 Aug 2012, 17:17

Actually, I just had a thought.

Why couldn't you use an old Lucas dynamo and wire it up in reverse to be a DC brushed motor. Then you could control the speed with a variable resistor linked to, say, two 12v sealed lead acid gel type batteries in parallel to give you a maximum of 24 volts and a minimum of bugger all volts. You could mount the Lucas motor on the trailer frame with a cog that linked it to the wheel via a chain.

Thinking our loud here, from a base of sod-all electrical knowledge......

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 02 Aug 2012, 17:31

Found something better. A new electric scooter DC motor (800 watt 48 volt) from the UK site below for 50 quid.

http://www.petrolscooter.co.uk/electric ... es-16.html

A scooter motor controller for said motor is about 40 quid from the following uk site:

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/otco.html

All I'd then need to do is link it to the trailer wheel's drive cog.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 02 Aug 2012, 17:42

Found an entire 1000 watt electric scooter motor kit including motor, controller, cables and twist-throttle for £170 quid from a UK supplier

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/48v- ... e-kit.html

Should be no hassle to rig that up to run the trailer wheel.

Sorted......

imakebiodiesel · Post by **imakebiodiesel** » 02 Aug 2012, 18:45

You are overlooking the battery and that is the most expensive part of the whole outfit. A 48 volt battery will be very expensive, 36v are more common and more affordable.
Controlling a dc motor simply by reducing the voltage is not very satisfactory. As the voltage goes down so does the torque. At a certain point the power just dies. The PCM controllers deliver the full voltage in pulses. The higher the throttle setting the shorter the interval between the pulses.
The scooter motors look like very good value and could easily be incorporated into the design.

imakebiodiesel · Post by **imakebiodiesel** » 02 Aug 2012, 19:05

Im posting a picture of my own bike trailer. This design could easily be adapted for use with a scooter motor. This one is made of wood but it could equally be welded up from square steel tubing. It uses two ordinary bicycle wheels and the floor is 1inch square steel mesh. No rain collects on it , its strong and light.
The tow bar is attached at the rear wheel hub which is more stable than hitching to the seat pillar.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

imakebiodiesel · Post by **imakebiodiesel** » 02 Aug 2012, 19:12

Here is another pic with the crates I normally use for carting stuff. If one of the wheels was replaced with a 5 speed rear wheel and a scooter motor was mounted underneath, towards the front with a chain to connect them . The battery could be strapped underneath as well toward the back to balance the motor. When the motor was not in use the freewheel would allow the wheel to turn without driving the motor.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 02 Aug 2012, 19:18

Actually, that kit was not £170. It was £170 dollars!. It's a yank firm who ship to the UK. £170 dollars is £109!

Even accounting for shipping charges of, say, fifty quid, that's a bloody bargain!

Where's the catch?

There has to be a catch.......

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 02 Aug 2012, 19:19

imakebiodiesel wrote:Here is another pic with the crates I normally use for carting stuff. If one of the wheels was replaced with a 5 speed rear wheel and a scooter motor was mounted underneath, towards the front with a chain to connect them . The battery could be strapped underneath as well toward the back to balance the motor. When the motor was not in use the freewheel would allow the wheel to turn without driving the motor.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Nice trailer mate.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 02 Aug 2012, 19:37

stevecook172001 wrote:Actually, that kit was not £170. It was £170 dollars!. It's a yank firm who ship to the UK. £170 dollars is £109!

Even accounting for shipping charges of, say, fifty quid, that's a bloody bargain!

Where's the catch?

There has to be a catch.......

58 quid shipping to the UK. That includes all import duties at this end.

So that's about 170 quid in total including delivery. My plan would be to use four very small 12v lead acid sealed gel type batteries run in parallel and have them on constant recharge from a small inverter generator mounted on the platform of the trailer. On their own, the batteries might only give a few minutes of so of power to the motor. But, with the generator re-charging them on the fly, the range should be highly extended. Obviously, I am going to need to work on the numbers in terms of the output of the genny, the rate at which the batteries can be charged back up, the size of batteries needed to make the necessary range possible etc etc. After doing all of that, it may not turn out to be so clever.

We shall see.....

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 02 Aug 2012, 19:46

Actually, I am seeing second hand 1000watt inverter generators on sale on Ebay for less than a 100 quid. Would I be able to simply run the motor directly off the generator? Or does it surge at start-up and so need more than 1000 watts to get going? Also, I would need a transformer to step the output voltage of the generator from 240 volt to 48 volt. What would that do to the wattage output of the generator?

Assuming no major problems in loss off wattage in transforming the voltage down on the generator, I suppose I could go for a slightly less powerful 750watt motor to allow for any surge.....

So, assuming that a 48 volt dc 750 watt motor kit could be run directly off a 1kw inverter generator which I should be able to pick up second hand of Ebay for, say, 100 quid, that comes out, so far, at £270 quid all in.

Not bad.

Hang on though, the transformer cost....

The necessary transformer is going to cost about £100 (for the necessary wattage). So, that's £370 all in. Not so cheap, but still a lot cheaper than the hub gear kits and batteries

So, basically:

240 volt 1000 watt inverter generator sends power to 48 volt 1000 watt transformer which sends power to 48 volt 750 watt motor controller which send power to 48 volt 750 watt motor.

more or less.......

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 04 Aug 2012, 14:22

I have found out a transformer to reduce 240 volts to 48 volts while keeping the 1000 watts of power is stupid money so that's a non starter.

...working on another solution.....