Conservatives raise spectre of food vouchers for the poor

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 08 Jul 2012, 21:13

There are all sorts of reasons but it's mostly not their fault. Try going to a place where poor people live and walking to the nearest source of 1/2decent food. Long way, innit? For an encore, try *paying* for the said decent food. Not cheap, izzit? Buy raw ingredients and cook yer own? Lots of the very poorest people don't own a working cooker (no I didn't believe this either, but it's true!). I could go on...

I thought food vouchers were an alright idea 'til I discovered that they're not automatically accepted in all food shops, but only by some large chains.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 08 Jul 2012, 21:26

Don't know and don't care.

Some like like to eat processed food, thats a fact of life.

Even Tesco supplies healthy food, but for some reason there is a relationship with class and food in the UK.

Not so much in Italy or France.

nexus · Post by **nexus** » 08 Jul 2012, 21:47

Don't know and don't care

Nice attitude.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 08 Jul 2012, 23:43

Lord Beria3 wrote:Don't know and don't care.

Some like like to eat processed food, thats a fact of life.

Even Tesco supplies healthy food, but for some reason there is a relationship with class and food in the UK.

Not so much in Italy or France.

Fair enough.

However, since by your own admission, you do not care to justify or, even, think about the reasoning behind the arguments you present, I consider myself now at liberty to cease giving a F--k about what you post.

hodson2k9 · Post by **hodson2k9** » 09 Jul 2012, 22:56

Why do poor people buy "crap", as you put it?

There are numerous reasons but the main one is simple, its cheaper to buy processed crap like burgers, pizza etc than buy fresh ingredients for a healthy meal ... throw in the fact that 9 times out of 10 its quicker and theres your answer.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 09 Jul 2012, 23:02

hodson2k9 wrote:
Why do poor people buy "crap", as you put it?
There are numerous reasons but the main one is simple, its cheaper to buy processed crap like burgers, pizza etc than buy fresh ingredients for a healthy meal ... throw in the fact that 9 times out of 10 its quicker and theres your answer.

I can't believe I've just read that. What have we come to?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 09 Jul 2012, 23:57

hodson2k9 wrote:
Why do poor people buy "crap", as you put it?
There are numerous reasons but the main one is simple, its cheaper to buy processed crap like burgers, pizza etc than buy fresh ingredients for a healthy meal ... throw in the fact that 9 times out of 10 its quicker and theres your answer.

Yep, i just wanted Beria to admit that. But, of course, he didn't because, in doing so, he would have had to then address the inequities implied by that admission.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 10 Jul 2012, 07:53

cheaper to buy processed crap like burgers, pizza etc than buy fresh ingredients for a healthy meal

No, fresh ingredients are usually cheaper processed food. It takes time, effort and knowledge to cook, but cooking is part of life.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 10 Jul 2012, 08:44

biffvernon wrote:
cheaper to buy processed crap like burgers, pizza etc than buy fresh ingredients for a healthy meal
No, fresh ingredients are usually cheaper processed food. It takes time, effort and knowledge to cook, but cooking is part of life.

+1. Anyway, I've got more respect for my stomach, my family and an NHS service which is currently groaning under the weight of an increasing number of obese patients with diabetes related illnesses.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 10 Jul 2012, 09:10

biffvernon wrote:
cheaper to buy processed crap like burgers, pizza etc than buy fresh ingredients for a healthy meal
No, fresh ingredients are usually cheaper processed food. It takes time, effort and knowledge to cook, but cooking is part of life.

Fresh ingredients that involve a varied taste repertoire are not cheaper (and I buy fresh ingredients to feed a household of five so I have extensive experience). Sure, it is as cheap or cheaper to buy fresh ingredients if you are prepared to live on a nutritionally adequate diet but with little variety unless you have a considerable degree of time available to devote to preparation.

All of which are extremely difficult issues for poor households where both parents need to work full time to simply keep the boat afloat and so invariably arrive home knackered in the evening, but at the same time need to provide food quickly after arriving home that is both varied as well as cheap. This issue is further exacerbated by the fact that, working full time and existing in individualised and fragmented extended familial structures, there is less time and opportunity for them to learn how to cook adequately with fresh ingredients even where there is some limited capacity for them to do so.

To simply make the bald statement that poor people could cook with entirely fresh ingredient and wantonly and irresponsibly choose not to do is frankly silly at best and objectionable at worst.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but is seems to me that the only way anyone can assert the above statement is if either:

* they have lots of spare time on their hands

* they are not actually poor

* they are poor in the cash sense but not in the asset sense. For example, they own their own their own home and do not need to earn much if anything to simply get by. Thus, they have little external stressors and much time to devote to shopping for fresh ingredients and preparing them in inventive ways for a full and varied diet.

* they were brought up themselves in a household where their caregivers had a lot of time on their hands to educate them in food preparation and so they are living off the back of that stored early knowledge.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 10 Jul 2012, 11:39

stevecook172001 wrote:
biffvernon wrote:
cheaper to buy processed crap like burgers, pizza etc than buy fresh ingredients for a healthy meal
No, fresh ingredients are usually cheaper processed food. It takes time, effort and knowledge to cook, but cooking is part of life.
Fresh ingredients that involve a varied taste repertoire are not cheaper

Nah, you missed the 'knowledge' item on my list.

hodson2k9 · Post by **hodson2k9** » 10 Jul 2012, 16:39

Well put Steve!!

Nice to see that some people actually understand the realities of what it's like to be "poor" (er) and have that lifestyle.

It seems most people on here haven't got the foggiest of what its truly like and are too quick to judge.

One of the most important issues people seem to miss is knowledge. Its not just about cash or assets.

Example: I said to my mate "do you know that eating mcdonalds nearly every day is really bad for you?" his answer "its ok! it dont affect me im skinny!".

Add the fact that all his/there parents ever fed them was processed crap served with chips every night and its not hard too see why the "poor" eat the way they do.

Post by **adam2** » 10 Jul 2012, 16:51

IME experience a lot of the poor eat largely convienience foods because they they believe that this is cheaper than basic cooking.
In many cases this is untrue, but an awful lot lack the mental capacity to work it out.

Potatoes are very cheap from either supermarkets or local shops. They are very easy to prepare in either a microwave oven or a pot on a boiling ring. A medium bag of potatoes is 99p in my local shop. A portion of chips is £1-60 from the chip shop.

Dried pasta is very cheap and keeps for ages, and could not be much simpler to cook. Boil until soft.

In summer many vegetables and salads are plentiful and cheap when in season, many need no cooking whatsoever.

Fresh fruit is sold in local shops and is very cheap, contary to what the poverty lobby say.
An apple or an orange is much cheaper than a bag of chips or a choc-ice, but do you ever see the poor buy an apple ?
Choc-ices are £1-50 in my local shop and are widely purchased by the poor. Apples are 25p each and purchased mainly by middle class customers.

In summer a basic meal for four persons could consist of a dozen tomatoes (75p) a large letucce (50p) 6 hard boiled eggs (£1) and a can of tuna (£1) time taken is a few minutes, skills needed are minimal, cost is £3-25. Yet many of the poor would probably buy a takeaway at twice the price.
I grant that plain potatoes or pasta are boring, but they are easily rendered more interesting by small amounts of relatively cheap other foods.

hodson2k9 · Post by **hodson2k9** » 10 Jul 2012, 17:19

adam2 wrote:IME experience a lot of the poor eat largely convienience foods because they they believe that this is cheaper than basic cooking.
In many cases this is untrue, but an awful lot lack the mental capacity to work it out.

Potatoes are very cheap from either supermarkets or local shops. They are very easy to prepare in either a microwave oven or a pot on a boiling ring. A medium bag of potatoes is 99p in my local shop. A portion of chips is £1-60 from the chip shop.

Dried pasta is very cheap and keeps for ages, and could not be much simpler to cook. Boil until soft.

In summer many vegetables and salads are plentiful and cheap when in season, many need no cooking whatsoever.

Fresh fruit is sold in local shops and is very cheap, contary to what the poverty lobby say.
An apple or an orange is much cheaper than a bag of chips or a choc-ice, but do you ever see the poor buy an apple ?
Choc-ices are £1-50 in my local shop and are widely purchased by the poor. Apples are 25p each and purchased mainly by middle class customers.

In summer a basic meal for four persons could consist of a dozen tomatoes (75p) a large letucce (50p) 6 hard boiled eggs (£1) and a can of tuna (£1) time taken is a few minutes, skills needed are minimal, cost is £3-25. Yet many of the poor would probably buy a takeaway at twice the price.
I grant that plain potatoes or pasta are boring, but they are easily rendered more interesting by small amounts of relatively cheap other foods.

Not disagreeing with what your saying but unfortunately given the choice between what you say or a 99p microwave cheesburger thats done in 50 seconds theres only one winner for most people on taste, convenience and cost.

You have to remember most of the poorer especially my age have a taste for high salt and fat foods. The only time most have anything fresh is on a sunday with there sunday roast.

Then theres the knowledge situation which i high lighted with my friend, apart from obesity most genuinely dont know the dangers.

Something i hear alot when talking about the dangers of cola and processed meat etc is "if it was that bad for you it would be banned by the government!

Unfortunately most of the population think like that on many different problems too like say peak oil, climate change etc. Untill people realise that our governments actually not benevolent then none of the problems have much chance of changeing.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 10 Jul 2012, 17:25

Sounds like a lot of stereotyping going on in this thread. I'm sure there are many "poor" people who cook imaginatively with fresh ingredients. Equally, I know there are plenty of "rich" people who buy and serve c**p to their kids.

I know this isn't the whole solution, but education in the schools would help. Start by getting rid of "Food Technology" off the curriculum and replace it with "Cookery". I know from my own children's experience that Food Technology is essentially a vocational subject, geared to sparking an interest in the food industry. This is reflected in the types of meals they prepare during practicals; chicken nuggets, pizza, etc. One thing we've done on Scout camp is give the kids a cookery challenge; here's a couple of potatoes, some carrots, an onion and some chicken. See what you can make of it. We have a central pool of spices, etc that they can play around with.

Also insist, as a planning condition, that supermarkets engage in making it easy for local families to cook fresh. This could be in the form of demonstrations in the car park, or out at local community centres, and a local "shop in a van" (remember those?) selling only fresh ingredients. Store has to submit its planned programme as part of the planning application. Execution is monitored. Lack of follow through = "3 strikes and you're out". Store shuts down. No messing.