Spain Watch, and Catalan independance

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 13 Jun 2012, 21:43

emordnilap wrote:Mr Farage puts on a good performance but I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

Mr Farage is a tw*t. I don't think he's truly dangerous. What you see (a tw*t) is what you get.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 14 Jun 2012, 11:12

UndercoverElephant wrote:We've already seen the European Financial Stability Facility. It wasn't enough, so they invented the European Stability Mechanism. What's the Even Bigger Bazooka going to be called? They are running out of names, as well as money.

OK, Bazooka #3 appears to have a name and a size:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... urope.html

Debt crisis: Germany signals shift on €2.3 trillion redemption fund for Europe

The German government has begun opening the door to shared debts for the first time in a profound change of policy, agreeing to explore proposals for a €2.3 trillion (£1.9 trillion) stabilization fund in order to stop the eurozone’s crisis escalating out of control.

€2.3 trillion also might be enough to stabilise the eurozone until the end of the year. But where is it going to come from?

I'm not sure I fully understand what is being proposed here.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 14 Jun 2012, 12:03

UndercoverElephant wrote:
emordnilap wrote:Mr Farage puts on a good performance but I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
Mr Farage is a tw*t. I don't think he's truly dangerous. What you see (a tw*t) is what you get.

He might not be dangerous but the party he supports is.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 14 Jun 2012, 12:07

UndercoverElephant wrote:I'm not sure I fully understand what is being proposed here.

In that case, you seem to have excellent qualifications for a top job in the European Commission.

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » 14 Jun 2012, 18:06

What's being proposed (if it happens) is that the higher rated countries will issue bonds on behalf of the Junk Economies. The German 'Wise Men' are already twitchy about it and rightly so.

It's a Band-Aid solution to keep things going a little further but I doubt it will be implimented, Greece votes shortly and a cynic may think that this is an attempt to sway the voters towards austerity.

EDIT TO ADD: This seems like the financial industry looking for an alternative to growth to get out of a recession. They may not accept Peak Oil in parliament but you can be sure the bankers ARE trying to factor it in.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 14 Jun 2012, 19:09

SleeperService wrote:What's being proposed (if it happens) is that the higher rated countries will issue bonds on behalf of the Junk Economies. The German 'Wise Men' are already twitchy about it and rightly so.
ttle further but I doubt it will be implimented, Greece votes shortly and a cynic may think that this is an attempt to sway the voters towards austerity.

Just saw Peston on the BBC and he looked worried. It was by far the bleakest assessment he's given yet. He said that the German finance minister is saying that this plan is not compatible with the German constitution and is not going to happen, and that the markets are viewing this as very grim news indeed and that the consequences for the UK are likely to be very bad indeed.

EDIT TO ADD: This seems like the financial industry looking for an alternative to growth to get out of a recession. They may not accept Peak Oil in parliament but you can be sure the bankers ARE trying to factor it
It's a Band-Aid solution to keep things going a liin.

Band-aid solutions are precisely what aren't working any longer.

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » 14 Jun 2012, 21:17

+1 to your comments.

I can't think of anything that will work. Let alone anything acceptable to TPTB

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 15 Jun 2012, 11:18

I suppose it depends upon your definition of what is supposed to work.

The original sin of propping up bankrupt businesses (and continuing to do so) merely compounds the gross error that was our ponzi economics.

Nothing is going to 'work'. It's too late, even conceding it was ever possible to make anything work.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 16 Jun 2012, 09:16

BBC News - 15/06/12

Striking coal miners have clashed with police in northern Spain, in some of the worst disturbances since the government imposed austerity measures.

The interior ministry said at least seven people had been injured in the clashes outside a mine in Asturias.

Miners fired sky rockets and ball-bearings at riot police who responded with rubber bullets and tear gas.

The miners are protesting at plans to cut government subsidies from 300m euros (£242m; $376m) to 110m euros.

Thousands of miners have been on strike across northern Spain for weeks.

Article continues ...

A taste of things to come.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 19 Jun 2012, 22:09

The Guardian - 19/06/12

Spain's borrowing costs hit 12-year high

Rates on 12 to 18-month bonds top 5% as PM fails to persuade eurozone leaders at G20 that bailout is not national debt.

Article continues ...

RogueMale · Post by **RogueMale** » 23 Jun 2012, 16:10

Totally_Baffled wrote:Aurora

Might as well get a thread set up for every European country lol Suggest this order:

Portugal Watch....
Ireland Watch...
Italy Watch...
Netherlands Watch..
France Watch...
UK watch...
Germany Watch...
Mushroom cloud watch...(ok maybe this a little pessimistic lol )

Swiss watch?

(Gets coat)

energy-village · Post by **energy-village** » 23 Jun 2012, 16:32

RogueMale wrote: Swiss watch?

(Gets coat)

Post by **adam2** » 25 Jun 2012, 11:51

Spain requests bailout.
More here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18577951

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 26 Jun 2012, 09:42

BBC News - 26/06/12

The ratings agency Moody's has cut the credit rating on 28 of Spain's banks, one week after the country asked for money to support them.

The move follows a cut to the Spanish government's own credit rating to just above junk status earlier this month.

Moody's said in a statement, that Spain's reduced creditworthiness "implies a weaker credit profile for Spanish banks."

Article continues ...

When is this Euro-scharade going to end?

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 26 Jun 2012, 10:26

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. ... nment.html

Capital Controls Hit Spain: Government Laws Prohibit Cash Transactions Over €2,500; Minimum Fine of €10,000 for Failure to Report Foreign Accounts

If Spain is seeking further instability, a new law on financial transactions is sure to do just that. Via Google Translate, Spain passes a law limiting cash payments to 2,500 euros.

Key Provisions

Minimum fine of €10,000 for taxpayers who do not report their foreign accounts.
Fine of €5,000 for each additional account
Cash transactions greater than €2,500 prohibited
Cash transaction restrictions apply to individuals and businesses

When does it end?

This slow but steady run on the PIFIGS banks will end it unless Germany has a radical change of heart/strategy very soon. The only thing that could delay the catastrophe now would be something like an unconditional pledge from the ECB, with German backing, to print however much money is needed. That stops the bank runs in Greece and Spain, buys some more time, but at the price of severe political chaos as the politicians try to bridge the grand canyon between what the ECB is doing and the rest of euro-reality.