Spain Watch, and Catalan independance

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 11 Jun 2012, 07:48

The Independent - 11/06/12

Fears that Spain's bailout relief may be short-lived

Article continues ...

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 11 Jun 2012, 15:30

Aurora wrote:
The Independent - 11/06/12

Fears that Spain's bailout relief may be short-lived

Article continues ...

You're telling me it's short lived...

Footsie and Dow both nearly back under water after a very brief morning rally

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 11 Jun 2012, 17:48

Hardly surprising really. I've never seen such an exercise in trying to polish a turd!

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 11 Jun 2012, 18:17

It looks like the can has been kicked on down the road into Italy now.

Bloomberg Businessweek - 11/06/12

The relief in Rome was short-lived. Italian bonds rallied early on June 11, the first trading day after European finance ministers’ weekend agreement on a $125 billion bailout for Spanish banks.

But within hours, Italian borrowing costs were creeping back up again, reflecting persistent market fears that the Continent’s third-largest economy could be the next to falter. “Contagion into Italy and other countries is a reality,” Joachim Fels, chief global economist at Morgan Staley in London, said in a Bloomberg Television interview as the bond rally petered out.

Article continues ...

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 11 Jun 2012, 23:47

Van Rumpy Pumpy on Newsnight was highly amusing this evening. Paxman was asking him the simplest of questions...like "So is Spain going to be lending Spain money?" Somehow he managed to keep a straight face, while explaining that "the details of the loan" (i.e. who is going to not get paid first when Spain defaults) hadn't been sorted out yet! But he assured us that Spain will one day pay the money back, and it wasn't other European taxpayers bailing out Spanish banks that had been looted by Spanish bankers who are still sitting on the profits. Oh no, it is a "loan" to buy Spain some time to sort it's little problem out.

It might just be enough to keep Spain going until next Sunday, when I'd bet my non-existent house that Syriza are going to win the election in Greece. Anyone want to guess what happens next?

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 12 Jun 2012, 00:33

The eurozone is now primed to explode. This 100bn euro "loan" to Spain was only made because Spain threatened to let the bomb go off. If/when Syriza win in Greece, they will have a rock solid case for demanding the austerity measures are not implemented further. Everybody knows that austerity isn't actually going to fix Greece's debt problem, and this has effectively been admitted by the making of this loan to Spain with no austerity demanded in return. I'm not sure the "contagion" argument works anymore either, since Spain is quite clearly already "infected."

The Greeks will then play the same card Spain just played. They will make big demands, and their claims will be backed by the threat of the eurobomb going off if the Germans don't capitulate again. We've already seen the European Financial Stability Facility. It wasn't enough, so they invented the European Stability Mechanism. What's the Even Bigger Bazooka going to be called? They are running out of names, as well as money.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/haydnshaugh ... nd-the-eu/

El Mundo, the Spanish daily, ran a series of text messages on its front page today purporting to be from the Spanish Prime Minister to his Euro bailout negotiator. The killer line comes from Rajoy and has not been denied so far. He instructs his negotiator to tell the EU: “If you want to force our bailout get ready to spend 500 bln. And 700 more for Italy, next in line.”

And that seems to be the truth now dawning on everyone watching the crisis unfold.

1200 billion euros to bail out Spain and Italy. To put that in perspective, when the UK was forced out of the ERM in 1992 (Black Wednesday), the total cost was no more than £30 billion.

Since it was announced, Saturday, it seems nobody involved in the negotiation can actually agree what has been agreed, with differences over the funding mechanisms, the terms that Spain has to meet and the level of interest likely to be paid.

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » 12 Jun 2012, 09:40

The 'contagion' theory is a red herring very similar to the 'domino' theory used to con the American people about Vietnam.

The bottom line is that EVERY countries bankers have been playing foolish games that they never provided for in the event they went wrong. Thus all countries are already infected it's just where the symptoms show up and how serious they are.

To continue the analogy everybody has the potential to develope cancer. Not everybody does.

It induces a measure of panic especially in politicians who then hand over more cash. Expect Spain and Greece to pay back in about 2310.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 12 Jun 2012, 12:55

"Expect Greece and Spain to pay back in about 2310"

What with; bushels of olives?

extractorfan · Post by **extractorfan** » 12 Jun 2012, 13:02

Expect bushels of olives to be very valuable in 2310

Cabrone · Post by **Cabrone** » 13 Jun 2012, 12:21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... N_1mF-3JTI

"Under the latest EU agreement the Italians have to lend the Spanish 20 billion Euros at 3% but have to go to the markets to get the money at 7%"

How much does Italy already owe? Trillions isn't it?

The EZ is melting down and the EU is shuffling the deckchairs.

Once again Farage hammers home the insanity.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 13 Jun 2012, 17:34

Cabrone wrote: Once again Farage hammers home the insanity.

For him, every day must feel like Christmas at the moment.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 13 Jun 2012, 17:54

Mr Farage puts on a good performance but I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 13 Jun 2012, 19:24

emordnilap wrote:Mr Farage puts on a good performance but I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

+1. Arrogant spiv.

Cabrone · Post by **Cabrone** » 13 Jun 2012, 21:16

Aurora wrote:
emordnilap wrote:Mr Farage puts on a good performance but I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
+1. Arrogant spiv.

Unlike the rest of them?

He's just pointing out what the nutters incharge of the asylum are up to.

How many of the LibLab Con dictators are questioning the lunacy?

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 13 Jun 2012, 21:26

Cabrone wrote:
Aurora wrote:
emordnilap wrote:Mr Farage puts on a good performance but I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
+1. Arrogant spiv.
Unlike the rest of them?

No. I did credit him with a good performance, that's all - he is stating some truths too, to be absolutely fair to him in that regard.

His underlying philosophy is worse than many though but, after all, the lot of them are merely politicians, incapable of doing anything for us, for our benefit.