Confessions of a Recovering Environmentalist

[emordnilap]

Can someone point me to peer-reviewed proof of the '200 species a day' extinction claim? It's the first time I've heard it, in Lierre Keith's contribution, then I read it in Guy McPherson's piece.

I'm reluctant to use what is a shocking figure without having some way of backing it up.

[woodburner]

I don't see how the claim can be proved since new species are being discovered, we don't know how many there are. Some of the unknown ones may be going extinct before we know about them, I expect Donald Rumsfelt could explain it concisely.

[JohnB]

It made me think of a simple example: I consider the compost toilet a distinct improvement over the old-fashioned flush toilet but have been roundly dismissed for these views because it doesn't pass the mother-in-law test.

I haven't got a mother-in-law . When I achieve my aims, visitors will be given the choice of using the compost loo, or doing what bears do in the wood .

[UndercoverElephant]

Can someone point me to peer-reviewed proof of the '200 species a day' extinction claim? It's the first time I've heard it, in Lierre Keith's contribution, then I read it in Guy McPherson's piece.

I'm reluctant to use what is a shocking figure without having some way of backing it up.

It's essentially a meaningless number, for two reasons.

Firstly, it is a matter of taxonomic debate what consitutes a species. How many species of blackberry grow in the British Isles? Some books will tell you there's about two or three, but according to the specialists in that area there's more like thirty. Something similar applies to dandelions.

Secondly, there are more species on this planet which have never been scientifically described than those that have been. We haven't even logged all the mammals, let alone all the invertebrates or fungi.

So there can be no peer-reviewed proof of this figure. But I don't think one is needed anyway, because there is no doubt that species are currently being lost as rapidly in geological terms as any of the previous mass-extinction events. We know this because we know how much habitat is being lost. The vast majority of species being lost are specialists which can only survive in very specific types of habitat, which we know are being lost.

But....even this is misleading. Last week I was out foraging at Cuckmere Haven, which is the only decent-sized river estuary anywhere in southeast England that is still in something like its natural state, and the only place I know of where a river crosses a shingle beach. I came across a plant I didn't recognise, with distinctive spiny defences. It turned out to be something called a "red star-thistle" which in the UK is native only on the south coast, where it is classified as rare and is protected accordingly. But the twist is that it is much better known in many other parts of the world where it is an invasive introduced species - a pernicious weed.

We've basically messed up everything we could have messed up. We've polluted everywhere from the south pole to the bottom of the pacific ocean, destroyed over half of the world's natural habitat, including most of the richest areas, and messed up the balance of just about every ecosystem on the planet by introducing species that don't naturally occur there.

[woodburner]

It made me think of a simple example: I consider the compost toilet a distinct improvement over the old-fashioned flush toilet

I agree, the compost toilet is an improvement if you live in a place with space, such as a field. It has limitations if you live in a block of flats.

[woodburner]

When I achieve my aims, visitors will be given the choice of using the compost loo, or doing what bears do in the wood .

But what if they don't like porridge?

[UndercoverElephant]

It made me think of a simple example: I consider the compost toilet a distinct improvement over the old-fashioned flush toilet

I agree, the compost toilet is an improvement if you live in a place with space, such as a field. It has limitations if you live in a block of flats.

The idea of living in a block of flats (which I did once, ugh!) makes me appreciate my snail-infested, postage-stamp-sized garden. When TSHTF, blocks of flats will be the worst possible sort of accomodation.

[emordnilap]

It made me think of a simple example: I consider the compost toilet a distinct improvement over the old-fashioned flush toilet

I agree, the compost toilet is an improvement if you live in a place with space, such as a field. It has limitations if you live in a block of flats.

Not really; I can envision a compost toilet system for a block of flats, no problem.

[woodburner]

Secondly, there are more species on this planet which have never been scientifically described than those that have been.

You cannot know that (I suspect you are right though).

[emordnilap]

It made me think of a simple example: I consider the compost toilet a distinct improvement over the old-fashioned flush toilet but have been roundly dismissed for these views because it doesn't pass the mother-in-law test.

I haven't got a mother-in-law .

You know what I mean. Several mothers-in-law, including my own, have visited my house and all of them seem to have bladders and bowels of leather.

[UndercoverElephant]

Secondly, there are more species on this planet which have never been scientifically described than those that have been.

You cannot know that (I suspect you are right though).

I can't prove it, but the rate at which new species are still being described strongly suggests that it is true.

[peaceful_life]

Secondly, there are more species on this planet which have never been scientifically described than those that have been.

You cannot know that (I suspect you are right though).

I can't prove it, but the rate at which new species are still being described strongly suggests that it is true.

Yet (we) increasingly destroy huge swathes of natural habitat where these undiscovered species dwell.

Catch 22

[peaceful_life]

http://guymcpherson.com/2012/06/we-are- ... saurs-now/

People are talking.

[emordnilap]

Just out of curiosity, have you seen ' The fk it point'?

Not yet. Downloading now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYUYzYdL1E4

A film about the dark side of civilization, why we should bring it down and why most civilized people don't.

Excellent. Was it a film, a documentary, an exhortation? Who cares, it's very good. Anyone else see it yet?

Can someone point me to peer-reviewed proof of the '200 species a day' extinction claim? It's the first time I've heard it, in Lierre Keith's contribution, then I read it in Guy McPherson's piece.

I'm reluctant to use what is a shocking figure without having some way of backing it up.

This '200 a day' claim was made in The FuckIt Point too. Have to do some more digging as it's hard to use that claim without having confidence in it. I can believe it though!

[emordnilap]

Can someone point me to peer-reviewed proof of the '200 species a day' extinction claim?

It might be something to do with this.