New type of LED light

[adam2]

A new type of LED light has recently come onto the market, and I have ordered a few for trial.
These are not a retrofit LED lamp to go into an existing fitting, but are a complete LED light fitting for new installs or to replace existing.

These should prove more satisfactory in service than retrofit lamps, since heat is more easliy removed.

The unit consists of 3 LEDs each of 3 watts, permanently mounted in the light fitting.
Powered from the mains by an attached LED driver circuit.
Claimed light output is 400 lumens for the daylight version, and 360 lumens for the warmwhite version.
Claimed life is 30,000 hours, or 10 years of heavy domestic use.

Intended to be recessed into the ceiling instead of the wretched halogen downlights.

Cost about £40 each.

These could be modified to work from 12 volts DC, at some loss of efficiency.

I will update re durability etc.

[CountingDown]

Those sound interesting Adam2 - presumably as they're built-in, and don't have a replaceable bulb we're working on the LEDs having a long lifespan?

Also, what are the efficiency concerns with running them off 12v?

Look forward to seeing results of your trial - do you have a link so we can see them?

[adam2]

I have now installed several of these at work.
They are easily installed in most types of false ceiling, requiring a cut out 65mm in diameter, same as some halogen downlights.
The results are imppresive, though of course it is much to early to comment on the claimed life of 30,000 hours.

Each unit consists of 3 LEDs mounted on a substantial aluminium heatsink, they are covered by a frosted glass front cover.
This results in a very even spread of light without rings, splotches, or other artifcacts.

The 3 LEDs are internally connected in series, and are driven from the mains by a constant current driver circuit which is attached to the top of the light fitting.
The driver circuit is said to accept an input voltage from 90 volts to 250, AC. It certainly worked fine on 110, and on 240 volts. I suspect that it would work on DC at mains voltages but have not verified this.
The voltage accross the LEDs is about 10.5 volts at a current of about 700ma.

For operation from 12 volts DC, the mains operated driver should be removed.
The LEDs could be connected to 12 volts via a dropper resistance, this would be reasonably efficient since most of the supply voltage would be used by the LEDs. The drawback of this crude arrangement is that the LED current and the light output would vary appreciably with changes in the supply voltage.
One could dim the lights by use of a variable resistance, or by a number of different value fixed value fixed resistors selected by a switch.

If used in a flashlight or lantern, then the LEDs may be driven from 8 alkaline cells, the internal resistance of which is nearly sufficient to limit the current.

A better approach would be to use a purpose made LED driver circuit intended for low voltage DC input, in place of the mains driver supplied.
That would be more efficient and gice constant light with a varying supply, but adds to costs.

If these, or similar units are to see widespread use I suggest that at end of life that recycling the large aluminium heatsink would be worth while.

[revdode]

Sounds interesting could you post details or PM me if trying to avoid advertising. One of my frustrations with consumer products is the poor quality of specification - apart from wattage and if you are lucky colour temperature you get very few details. I include the consumer product made by my employer in this sadly. Also currently the warrant / life time details specified for many LED products really don't strike me as entirely credible given the little knowledge I have in this area.

400 lumen is now actually easy to do in a single package (Cree MC-E multi die) and LED for general lighting is I think going to roll out very quickly the main constraint we have at the moment is no longer technical but related to availability of driver components.
I saw details of a panel for general lighting last week, 600 lumens on something the size of a 12" ruler, very nice, no thermal problems (low moving to medium power LED) and already integrated into a product which also uses the accent lighting I work with.

We launch 2000 lumen accent lighting this year and should cross the 3000 line next year. For general lighting there are already modules at the 3000 lumen mark which work and are becoming affordable. These are a little clunky at the moment but next year I think we will see some changes to make these easier to use in consumer applications.

I was a very skeptical about the speed of the change to lighting expected at the start but if anything I think the reality is faster. Just a shame our suppliers can't get the components we need.

http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns-Manufa ... nents.aspx

We still see delivery times of over 20 weeks being offered on ecaps! It seems the electronics industry is behaving rationally and is a little more skeptical about putting in place additional capacity. A signal that not all business are bearish of an immediate return to bubble world.

[adam2]

I have a spare light of the type discused above, if any established member would like to try one.
This would be on the understanding, that it must be returned, postage at the borrowers expense, or paid for, or by mutual agreement loaned to another established member for trial.
If the borrower desires to keep it, then they should pay £30.00, not to me but as a donation to powerswitch.

If interested please PM

http://www.i-magz.com/internationallamps/index.html
Link to brochure added.
The fittings in question are on the first page of the brochure, which also contains a number of other interesting energy saving lighting products.

I have used the above firm for some years, and would recomend them.
I have no connection with them, except as a customer.

[mobbsey]

For operation from 12 volts DC, the mains operated driver should be removed.

Don't s'pose they have a 24 volt version? -- more efficient than 12v.

[Little John]

A new type of LED light has recently come onto the market, and I have ordered a few for trial.
These are not a retrofit LED lamp to go into an existing fitting, but are a complete LED light fitting for new installs or to replace existing.

These should prove more satisfactory in service than retrofit lamps, since heat is more easliy removed.

The unit consists of 3 LEDs each of 3 watts, permanently mounted in the light fitting.
Powered from the mains by an attached LED driver circuit.
Claimed light output is 400 lumens for the daylight version, and 360 lumens for the warmwhite version.
Claimed life is 30,000 hours, or 10 years of heavy domestic use.

Intended to be recessed into the ceiling instead of the wretched halogen downlights.

Cost about £40 each.

These could be modified to work from 12 volts DC, at some loss of efficiency.

I will update re durability etc.

An equivalent energy saving bulb will typically last about 8,000 hours and will typically cost about £5

If we divide the cost of the LED unit by 30,000 to find out the cost per hour and do the same calculation for the energy savers (5/8,000) we get:

LED = £0.0013 per hour

Energy saver = £0.0006 per hour

Energy saver bulbs would appear to be less than 1/2 the price of these LEDs

Maybe make one of these?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiqjYW-3Hg8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrmKpUaG ... ure=fvwrel

[revdode]

Since Adam's original post the typical expect sales price for one of our functional LED products delivering around 2000 lumen has dropped from around 150 Euro in 2010 to somewhere around 45 Euros today, somewhere around 40 Euro by 2014 or perhaps a little lower.
We have sub 30 Euro 600 lumen fixtures to replace conventional Halogens (much like the product described by Adam). Next year we will start with mainstream general battens, waterpoof battens and even general office lighting. All really core products at prices which make them able to challenge TCO calculation on fluo, cfl is already out of the picture.
Where we haven't made the breakthrough yet is on accent and retail lighting, we have products and increasingly good prices but the efficiency isn't quite there compared to the progress made by high intensity discharge lamps in the last ten year. Unless the wheels fall off I think probably around 2014/2015 we will reach the target there.
I was originally highly skeptical on LED lighting as many of the original products in the market were really novelty items but today LED retrofit for Halogen and LED for area lighting is affordable. If I wasn't renting I would be upgrading my house lighting now.
One point to note is the life stated on typical LED products is related to lumen maintenance on the LEDs so the time that the light level may reduce to 70%. In products we designed three years ago aiming for 50k hours we now estimate >130k hours. My bad

(Edit - to be clear I work in the industry so not entirely unbiased, the statements above are my own and do not represent my employer blah blah blah.)

[JohnB]

I'm putting smallish lights in each of the different areas of my tiny home. Most of the time, I only need one 9w CFL on. While LEDs would use even less energy, I reckon this striving for more and more efficient products has much to do with trying to maintain BAU, rather than adapting the way we live. I would probably use less energy for lighting if I had incandescent bulbs, than many people would with LEDs!

[revdode]

I reckon this striving for more and more efficient products has much to do with trying to maintain BAU

I don't disagree but it is also quite disruptive, the business I work for has made money out of selling lamps for over a century and now we face a future without them. Some of the crazy ideas I hear proposed to maintain a business (never mind the usual part) are almost as far fetched as the story about building the USS enterprise.

[JohnB]

I don't disagree but it is also quite disruptive, the business I work for has made money out of selling lamps for over a century and now we face a future without them. Some of the crazy ideas I hear proposed to maintain a business (never mind the usual part) are almost as far fetched as the story about building the USS enterprise.

Managing the decline of businesses that are no longer needed, or not needed on such a large scale, and replacing them with new businesses, building starships ( ) or whatever, is rather radical thinking that TPTB will take a while to get their heads round!

[adam2]

For operation from 12 volts DC, the mains operated driver should be removed.

Don't s'pose they have a 24 volt version? -- more efficient than 12v.

No, the light fitting in question is not 12 volt as such, but is designed for mains supply.
The 3 LEDs are series connected and run at about 10/10.5 volts, from the included constant current driver circuit.
For 12 volt operation one could remove this driver circuit and use a simple resistance dropper.
Use of a resistance dropper from 24 volts would be very wastfull, unless two fittings in series could be used.
Alternatively one could substitute a proper electronic driver circuit intended for 24 volts supply.

[adam2]

Oh, BTW, note the date of the first post !
This is not a new thread, and LED technology has already moved on.

This thread has been overtaken by events and is no longer relevant, I have therefore locked it, but retained for historical interest.