Air travel and security

[snow hope]

Very useful Mike.

For others, note you have to click off the box for no cookies just below the address line where you copy the url into.

[Bozzio]

Thanks Mike,

It didn't work for me until I unchecked the "no cookies" option.

Interesting although this article by the Daily Mail yesterday is almost exactly the same except for the naming of the explosive. So why the big secrecy?

[biffvernon]

The Cryptome link I posted does have the whole article if you scroll down the page a bit.

[Bandidoz]

Interesting article:
Mass murder in the skies: was the plot feasible?

Nice find, quite liked this:

So the fabled binary liquid explosive - that is, the sudden mixing of hydrogen peroxide and acetone with sulfuric acid to create a plane-killing explosion, is out of the question. Meanwhile, making TATP ahead of time carries a risk that the mission will fail due to premature detonation, although it is the only plausible approach.

Certainly, if we can imagine a group of jihadists smuggling the necessary chemicals and equipment on board, and cooking up TATP in the lavatory, then we've passed from the realm of action blockbusters to that of situation comedy.

Funny how it's still being called an alleged plot.

So what's the ulterior motive likely to be?

Chaff for a temporary shortage in fuel following the Prudhoe shutdown?

Chaff for fuel being diverted to Israel?

Chaff for a reduction in airspace capacity to allow for increased military movements?

Allegedly the Suez canal has been very busy with a lot of warships.

There was quite an interesting article on Radio4 last Saturday or Sunday on agroterrorism. No doubt that will be used as chaff when food supplies start to dwindle....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/pip/5q14h/

[mikepepler]

For others, note you have to click off the box for no cookies just below the address line where you copy the url into.

Thanks Mike,

It didn't work for me until I unchecked the "no cookies" option.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that bit, NY Times needs cookies. I first found these anonymizer services when I wanted to look at pages blocked by the company firewall at my old workplace. Very useful in that situation - corporate firewalls try to block the anonymizers too, but there are so many they can't block them all!

[mikepepler]

It's OK, the PM has said there's a way to stop people causing trouble. He's thinking of anti-social behaviour, but I guess he might apply it to terrorism too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5301824.stm

Teenage mums and problem families could be forced to take government help to stop their toddlers becoming a future "menace to society", says Tony Blair. The prime minister it was possible to identify children who were likely to develop into troublemakers even before they were born. There could be sanctions for parents who refused to take advice, he said.
...
He admitted many people might be uneasy with the idea of intervening in people's family life but said there could be no "pussy-footing". But he said: "If we are not prepared to predict and intervene far more early then there are children who are growing up - in families which we know are dysfunctional - and the kids a few years down the line are going to be a menace to society."

I don't even know where to start with this one... there's obviously the problem of whether this kind of thing is acceptable, but another concern is what is defined as "anti-social", and therefore needs dealing with. What if it became "anti-social" to oppose the government?

[biffvernon]

I know what you're saying Mike, and there's a tightrope to walk but I see it from the point of view of one whose wife is a 'social inclusion keyworker'. Much of her time is spent in giving help and support to parents of young children who are finding parenting, and life generally, hard to cope with. The idea is that a little help given at the right time can prevent serious problems developing later. She's piloting the sort of stuff Blair is talking about. If Blair's talk sends more resources into this area of social work then my wife's job will be more secure and she will be able to carry on with what I think is pretty useful work.

[mikepepler]

Yes, I agree that helping parents and families is very important work, my wife has been a teacher in a school in a deprived area for a few years and has seen the problems for herself too. I just worry when they talk about determining who the "bad ones" are before birth, and forcing their parents to do stuff.

[Blue Peter]

Yes, I agree that helping parents and families is very important work, my wife has been a teacher in a school in a deprived area for a few years and has seen the problems for herself too. I just worry when they talk about determining who the "bad ones" are before birth, and forcing their parents to do stuff.

Perhaps this is an example of the problem being Blair. It could be a very good thing to do, based on what you and Biff say, it's just that when Blair talks about it, we immediately assume that there is some underhand motive behind it,


Peter.

[mikepepler]

From here: http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/9/1/91214/68010#6

BREAKING NEWS:

Subject: TEACHER ARRESTED

A public school teacher was arrested today at John F. Kennedy
International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while in
possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square, a slide rule and a
calculator.

At a morning press conference, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said he
believes the man is a member of the notorious Al-gebra movement. He did
not identify the man, who has been charged with carrying weapons of math
instruction.

"Al-gebra is a problem for us," Gonzales said. "They desire solutions by
means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a search of
absolute value. They use secret code names like 'x ' and 'y' and refer to
themselves as 'unknowns', but it has been determined that they belong to
a common denominator of the axis of medieval with co-ordinates in every
country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say: 'There are three
sides to every triangle'."

When asked to comment on the arrest, President Bush said, "If God had
wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, He would have given
us more fingers and toes."

[Cycloloco]

Interesting article:
Mass murder in the skies: was the plot feasible?

There is a bit of professional backing for the article in the register:
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/Issue ... osives.asp

Widespread speculation on the chemistry of liquid explosives, following news of a terrorist plot to blow up transatlantic flights from the UK, must be treated with caution, warn leading chemists.

Wildly differing media reports suggested that substantial quantities of nitroglycerine, a liquid explosive, could be easily smuggled onto a plane, while others preferred the idea that terrorists were planning to make the solid explosive triacetone triperoxide (TATP) from liquid ingredients in aircraft toilets. TATP was used in the London Underground bombing campaign of 7 July last year.

The frenzy followed an announcement from the Metropolitan Police Service, London, UK, on 10 August, that it had successfully disrupted ?a major terrorist plot to allegedly blow up an aircraft in mid-flight?. The Department for Transport followed the news with instructions that ?any liquids discovered must be removed from the passenger?.

?The measures that are in place are appropriate,? said Sean Doyle, head of chemistry and research at the forensic explosives laboratory of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL), Fort Halstead, UK. ?There is a real threat?, he told Chemistry World, adding that his team ? which worked on samples from last year?s London bombs ? was ?very much at the heart of the investigation.?

DSTL subsequently confirmed that it is currently analysing samples relating to the investigation, although as Chemistry World went to press security officials said they could not confirm that explosives had been recovered.

This means that the identity of the alleged explosive liquid is far from clear. ?There are liquid explosives, there are materials that are liquid that you could mix to make explosives, and there are liquids that you can combine to produce something like TATP,? said Gerry Murray, of the Forensic Science Agency of Northern Ireland.

Peter Fielden of the University of Manchester, UK, who works on explosives detection with DSTL, said he was concerned about the media attention the explosives were receiving. ?There?s an awful lot of unknowns and a great deal of speculation,? he said.

Nitroglycerine would cause terrorists a big practical challenge if they wanted to get enough on board to explode an aeroplane, said John Wyatt, a former bomb disposal officer and security consultant. Wyatt was head of counter-terror search operations in the UK during the era that followed the Brighton hotel bombing in 1984.

?You literally just have to drop [nitroglycerine] and it?ll explode,? he said. ?The impact of going through an x-ray machine or the impact of a body search is likely to set the stuff off.?

Wyatt said that while various combinations of fuels and oxidisers could be used to produce an explosive, preparing them is an extremely delicate process. One of the best known combinations is nitric acid and nitrobenzene: ?but to suggest that someone?s going to walk on to an aircraft and mix these two together to get an explosive liquid is, to put it bluntly, nonsense.?

Reports of making TATP in the toilets are equally far-fetched, said Murray. ?It would be extremely difficult to make [TATP] on a plane,? he said, not least because the process must be carried out at low temperature. ?It?s not just a question of mixing A and B and getting the stuff out at the end.?
......................

Maybe, in the interest of our security of course, we will never be told what the chemicals were.

[Blue Peter]

?You literally just have to drop [nitroglycerine] and it?ll explode,? he said. ?The impact of going through an x-ray machine or the impact of a body search is likely to set the stuff off.?

I haven't flown for a while, but when I did, I don't remember any "impact" from an x-ray machine, more like walking through an open door, really,


Peter.

[biffvernon]

It's been completely obvious from day one to anyone with a modicum of chemical knowledge and a quick search through the literature that the whole scare about small bottles of liquids taking out airliners was complete rubbish.

But violin cases? We all know they are the mobster's favourite cover.

[Bandidoz]

Just saw this in John Hemming's blog, which I found quite amusing:

http://johnhemming.blogspot.com/2006/09 ... ation.html

This imitation grenade was imported into the UK last week.

It is a cigarette lighter. That is, therefore, entirely lawful. However, you would have expected someone to have checked whether or not it was a real grenade.

What happened is that on this particular flight in the departing airport the security guards were quite busy searching some people of Asian origin. However, they just waved through the individual depicted with the grenade lighter and a clip lighter which he had in his duty free bag.

The grenade is very comparable in weight and size to an anti-personnel grenade.

.....................

[heinbloed]

Nitrocellulose had been used by the Russian anarchists since the 19th century. They stuffed sofas or armchairs with it and brought it through the controls of the Tsar and his allies. It looks just like cloth. Cotton treated with a mixture of nitrate and sulphur acide.
What next? Flying naked?