Financial markets reeling after France and Greece elections

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 10 May 2012, 17:19

Is it my civic duty to rush about working as hard as I can to create wealth and pay the taxes that support the less able ( or perhaps the less dutiful ) ?

Am I shirking my responsibilities by deciding that I want a slower paced life ?

I must admit I hadn't thought about it that way before, but by opting out of the rat-race I am actually condemning someone else to poverty.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 10 May 2012, 17:39

Doctors/nurses and growers of food.

These are all we need to support, really.

Your share could be worked out quite easily.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 10 May 2012, 18:34

UndercoverElephant wrote:

I'm doing a pretty good job of opting out myself...

I'm not responsible for creating this insane and immoral system, and I've been fighting it for as long as I've been politically aware.

Yes, it is an insane and unjust world which needs to change and I am sure that we have all dreamed about leaving the rat race behind.

I've retired and, to a large extent, I have now achieved my goals. Finding an easier lifestyle (I hate that word) was certainly one of those goals when I was in my hedonistic twenties.

Having said that, I've never been selfish enough to assume that every other citizen should pay for my needs.

If you decide to opt out to the point where you no longer contribute to the greater good, then please do the rest of us, who have paid / are paying our way, the following favours:

1) When your children are old enough to go to school, don't send them.

2) When your house is burgled, don't call the police.

3) When you're sick, don't call the doctor or expect a referral to your local hospital.

After all, you won't be contributing to the system so why would you expect to receive anything from it. Sounds fair?

Catweazle wrote:

Is it my civic duty to rush about working as hard as I can to create wealth and pay the taxes that support the less able ( or perhaps the less dutiful ) ?

Am I shirking my responsibilities by deciding that I want a slower paced life ?

I must admit I hadn't thought about it that way before, but by opting out of the rat-race I am actually condemning someone else to poverty.

It IS your civic duty to make a contribution if you are able bodied, in work and healthy.

Why not? After all, if you take ill you'll expect to receive the appropriate care. There will always be a certain percentage of the population who will choose not to work. They obviously don't need any help from the state.

Are you shirking your responsibilities by deciding that you want a slower paced life? Not at all, but that shouldn't prevent you from making a contribution if you're healthy enough to work.

Over the years, I have travelled to many poor areas, both at home and abroad, where the people would welcome the chance to live and work within a system that offered so many benefits, regardless of its' failings.

We should remember that many generations that have gone before have fought for the benefits that we now accept with such ingratitude.

There are many injustices in this country. Greedy MP's. Fat cat *ankers. Talentless, overpaid celebrities. The list goes on. Poverty and hunger are on the increase.

What we shouldn't forget is that it's the 'little people', through their contributions, that ultimately provide the educational and healthcare benefits which we all take so readily for granted.

hodson2k9 · Post by **hodson2k9** » 10 May 2012, 18:46

Exactly

hodson2k9 · Post by **hodson2k9** » 10 May 2012, 18:51

UndercoverElephant wrote:
I'm not responsible for creating this insane and immoral system

Exactly UE!

IMO when people say "the world we have created" they are letting the real culprits (The scummy powers that be) off the hook rather lightly.

We are merley participants in a grand game of greed and power.

A game that no one on this board has any influence over what so ever. The outcome of this game will be the same no matter what any of us do on here.

Only after this outcome will any of us truly have any chance of influencing the future.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 10 May 2012, 18:59

Unfortunately, change can only come from within this farce we jokingly call a system. Never from without.

extractorfan · Post by **extractorfan** » 10 May 2012, 19:08

Aurora wrote:Unfortunately, change can only come from within this farce we jokingly call a system. Never from without.

In other words, you can't buck the system from the outside

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 10 May 2012, 19:11

extractorfan wrote:
Aurora wrote:Unfortunately, change can only come from within this farce we jokingly call a system. Never from without.
In other words, you can't buck the system from the outside

Something like that, but when the balance swings in favour of the 'little people' through all of their endeavours, watch out!

Anyoldways, here's something that's far more important.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/1 ... caster-bbc

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 10 May 2012, 19:16

extractorfan wrote:
Aurora wrote:Unfortunately, change can only come from within this farce we jokingly call a system. Never from without.
In other words, you can't buck the system from the outside

You can so long as you've got an internet connection.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 10 May 2012, 19:18

UndercoverElephant wrote:
extractorfan wrote:
Aurora wrote:Unfortunately, change can only come from within this farce we jokingly call a system. Never from without.
In other words, you can't buck the system from the outside
You can so long as you've got an internet connection.

You're fooling yourself if you think that places you 'outside' the system.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

hodson2k9 · Post by **hodson2k9** » 10 May 2012, 19:34

Having said that, I've never been selfish enough to assume that every other citizen should pay for my needs.

Whos saying that?

If you decide to opt out to the point where you no longer contribute to the greater good, then please do the rest of us, who have paid / are paying our way, the following favours:

1) When your children are old enough to go to school, don't send them.

Ive already told you this, it's the law. I know of 2 people who have done jail time for there childs lack of attendance. So even if some one wanted to they couldn't.

After all, you won't be contributing to the system so why would you expect to receive anything from it. Sounds fair?

I don't know what you thought i meant, when i said "cutting my self off from the system" but i merley meant i was trying to reduce my fossil fuel emissions as much as i can.

Im trying to grow my own food instead of buying supermarket food for example, weaning my self off parts of a collapsing system.

Im not just sitting around at home you know, living off the state (which i know won't be around to help much longer by the way). I am looking for work! And i do want to work aswell by the way, ive worked since i left school it's only been the last 9-12 months that i haven't.

There will always be a certain percentage of the population who will choose not to work. They obviously don't need any help from the state.

Again im not choosing to not work, and neither are alot of other people out of work.

You do know theres not enough jobs to go round right?

Are you shirking your responsibilities by deciding that you want a slower paced life? Not at all, but that shouldn't prevent you from making a contribution if you're healthy enough to work.

You do know theres not enough jobs to go round right? lol

Over the years, I have travelled to many poor areas, both at home and abroad, where the people would welcome the chance to live and work within a system that offered so many benefits, regardless of its'

Again you seem to be impying that people (probably me) are choosing not to work.

As i said earlier i think you have completely mis inderstood what i meant by "cutting myself off from the system" and my whole opinion in general.

You quite rightly pointed out literacy wasn't my strong point, maybe that is the reason for the mis understandment.

There are many injustices in this country. Greedy MP's. Fat cat *ankers. Talentless, overpaid celebrities. The list goes on. Poverty and hunger are on the increase.

What we shouldn't forget is that it's the 'little people', through their contributions, that ultimately provide the educational and healthcare benefits which we all take so readily for granted.

you have gone completely off topic.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 10 May 2012, 19:42

In case you hadn't noticed H, my previous post WASN'T A PERSONAL ATTACK ON YOU.

Got it?

This really is my last comment on this matter as I've got better, more productive things to do.

hodson2k9 · Post by **hodson2k9** » 10 May 2012, 19:49

Aurora wrote: In case you hadn't noticed H, my previous post WASN'T A PERSONAL ATTACK ON YOU.

Well obviously i hadn't noticed, otherwise i wouldn't of replied.

But.....

Ok, fair enough.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 10 May 2012, 20:24

For clarity, when I said "this is the world WE have created", I was meaning mankind; us humans; people who were born and grew up over the last century or two. Not we, as in the people who frequent this forum.

We are all complicit to a greater or lesser degree in the current system for good and bad. I have always been one of the first to say I like lots of things about our current society - various technologies, various easy and enjoyable ways of living, etc. But of course people who have seen some of my posts since I joined this forum back in 2005 will also know there are many things I think are crazy about our current profligate way of living.

I didn't create this society either, but I hold my hand up and say I take my responsibility as being a (very) small cog in its continuance. Whilst I try to change my own lifestyle, home and business to take account of what is coming. I also continue to inform others - regularly mentioning Peak Oil, mentioning the decline ahead, putting questions into people's minds. I even did it in a business meeting this morning - quite effective too.

stumuzz · Post by **stumuzz** » 10 May 2012, 20:34

snow hope wrote:. I even did it in a business meeting this morning - quite effective too.

Pray tell.

I sometimes mention ' resource depletion' in an indirect way.