Greece Watch...

[UndercoverElephant]

Anyway, on the subject of Greece, this is a far more important election in some ways for the eurozone.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... ls-parties

Governing parties backing EU-mandated austerity in Greece are on course for a major drubbing as hard-hit voters, venting their fury in elections, defected in droves, according to exit polls.

In a major upset that will not be welcomed by the crisis-plagued country's eurozone partners, the two forces that had agreed to enact unpopular belt-tightening in return for rescue funds appeared headed for a beating, with none being able to form a government.

After nearly 40 years of dominating the Greek political scene, the centre-right New Democracy and socialist Pasok saw support drop dramatically in favour of parties that had virulently opposed the tough austerity dictated by international creditors.


The latest figures showed New Democracy leading with between 19 – 20.5% of the vote, followed by the radical leftist party, Syriza, with as much as 17% and socialist party Pasok with between 13 – 14 %. And for the first time since the collapse of military rule, ultra-nationalists were also set to enter parliament with polls showing the neo-Nazi Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) capturing as much as 8%.

So it looks like public tolerance for EU cuts has finally collapsed in Greece... will they get further bailouts? Will Greece survive in the eurozone.

I sense that the time for a final decision on Greece fate is looming this year for Europe's leaders... should be very interesting.

They won't make the decision. The markets will.

[Tarrel]

France may be one of the better placed nations to prosper during the fossil-fuel decline. They are less car-dependent than many OECD nations, have a superb public transport system and are pretty much self-sufficient in (nuclear) electricity generation. Their agriculture system is also smaller-scale and more distributed compared to many countries.

If one takes away the emotional attachment to the "European Project" (probably born of bad memories of WW2, etc), then one can think of some interesting possibilities for France:
- Exit the Euro and the EU
- Default on the debt
- Allow the "New Franc" to devalue and create strong export-competitiveness
- Cut the flow of immigration
- Re-purpose the economy around near self-sufficiency in food, goods and services, and export of high added value food and manufactured goods.

(They'd probably need to invest a bit in defence as well. )

[UndercoverElephant]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17975370

Greek centre-right leader Antonis Samaras will try to form a government, despite an election in which voters deserted the major parties.

His New Democracy party and socialist Pasok attracted less than a third of the vote, in an election that throws Greece into political uncertainty.

The result is seen as a rejection of the tough terms of two EU/IMF bailouts.

A radical left coalition, Syriza, came second after New Democracy, and a neo-Nazi party polled almost 7%.

With about 99% of votes counted, centre-right New Democracy (ND) is leading with 18.9%, down from 33.5% in 2009.

So...the main rump of the Greek political establishment didn't even manage to get 30% of the vote and that leaves a clear anti-austerity majority in the Greek parliament. However, because that majority is split between the far right and various groupings on the far left who hate each other, it won't be able to form a coalition. So what happens now? Lots of negotiation which won't lead anywhere, followed by another election which is likely to produce a similar result. In other words, a total impasse where the Greek people are told to go back to the polls as many times as it takes for them to elect a government which will go along with the austerity plan which everybody knows won't work.

Meanwhile, the contagion will spread like necrotising fasciitis.

[UndercoverElephant]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17975370

The EU and Germany have stressed Greece must keep to the terms of the two EU/IMF bailouts, after a surge of voter support for anti-austerity parties.

"Must"?

So the EU and Germany think they can tell the yet-to-be-formed new Greek government, which has been elected by the people of Greece to oppose the austerity program, that they must implement it anyway, even though everybody knows it won't work!

Democracy and sanity RIP.

[woodburner]

They must implement it if they want any further support. If they don't, they're on their own. But it would be undiplomatic to say it.

[Aurora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17975370

The EU and Germany have stressed Greece must keep to the terms of the two EU/IMF bailouts, after a surge of voter support for anti-austerity parties.

"Must"?

So the EU and Germany think they can tell the yet-to-be-formed new Greek government, which has been elected by the people of Greece to oppose the austerity program, that they must implement it anyway, even though everybody knows it won't work!

Democracy and sanity RIP.

Apparently, only 65% of the eligible Greek voters turned out.

An amazingly low turnout considered the seriousness of the issues at hand.

Such apathy beggars belief.

[Little John]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17975370

The EU and Germany have stressed Greece must keep to the terms of the two EU/IMF bailouts, after a surge of voter support for anti-austerity parties.

"Must"?

So the EU and Germany think they can tell the yet-to-be-formed new Greek government, which has been elected by the people of Greece to oppose the austerity program, that they must implement it anyway, even though everybody knows it won't work!

Democracy and sanity RIP.

Apparently, only 65% of the eligible Greek voters turned out.

An amazingly low turnout considered the seriousness of the issues at hand.

Such apathy beggars belief.

I suspect it comes down to this:

If someone presents you with two different piles of shit and you are then asked to choose which one is rubbed in your face, you may find yourself less than inclined to make such a choice.

[Aurora]

If someone presents you with two different piles of shit and you are then asked to choose which one is rubbed in your face, you may find yourself less than inclined to make such a choice.

I think I'd prefer the one which was sporting a swastika.

[Little John]

If someone presents you with two different piles of shit and you are then asked to choose which one is rubbed in your face, you may find yourself less than inclined to make such a choice.

I think I'd prefer the one which was sporting a swastika.

Well....yes...

Sadly

[Aurora]

That should have read:

I think I'd prefer the one which wasn't sporting a swastika.

What was I thinking of?

[woodburner]

From preceding replies, it just shows how you can get people to agree with almost anything without much thinking beforehand, even on PS.

[Aurora]

Associated Press - 07/05/12

The leader of the Greek conservative party that gained the most votes in parliamentary elections said Monday his efforts to form a coalition government with other parties had failed, raising the possibility of a new election next month.

Conservative leader Antonis Samaras said his attempts to convince the heads of all the parties that might have been open to a coalition did not succeed, and that he had handed back the mandate to form a government to the country's president.

Article continues ...

They're stuffed.

[JavaScriptDonkey]

From preceding replies, it just shows how you can get people to agree with almost anything without much thinking beforehand, even on PS.

[Aurora]

From preceding replies, it just shows how you can get people to agree with almost anything without much thinking beforehand, even on PS.

Care to elaborate?

[biffvernon]

They must implement it if they want any further support. If they don't, they're on their own. But it would be undiplomatic to say it.

'He who pays the piper calls the tune' is so pre-2008.