Age of Limits conference

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Lord Beria3
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Age of Limits conference

Post by Lord Beria3 »

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2 ... -need-have
We've all experienced it: the kind of conversation everyone knows has to happen sooner or later, and nobody wants to have to face. Casual talk edges around it, jokes fail to get a laugh because they brush too close to it, silences open up because there's no way to keep talking without crossing that line and facing it openly. Then, finally, somebody draws in a deep breath and says the thing that has to be said; chairs get pulled closer around into a circle, and a sense of relief cuts through the discomfort as the conversation begins at last.

That's the kind of conversation we need to have now, and the subject is the end of industrial society.

Our entire society has been edging around that conversation uncomfortably for decades now. There's been plenty of talk about the mismatch between popular fantasies of perpetual growth and the hard limits of a finite planet, to be sure, but nearly all of that talk has treated the mismatch as a problem that can be solved by some gimmick without giving up either the extravagant lifestyles we're used to, on the one hand, or the hope of a decent life for our descendants on the other. Year after year, we've heard the same weary chatter about technological breakthroughs, great social movements, transformations in consciousness, and the rest of it; year after year, we've all heard the equal and opposite chatter about the overnight catastrophes that will relieve us of responsibility for the future our own choices are creating, for us and for our grandchildren's grandchildren; and too many people manage not to notice that neither the breakthroughs nor the catastrophes ever get around to happening, while the jaws of our predicament close more and more tightly around us.

Off beyond the daydreams of progress and apocalypse stands the shape of the future that always comes to civilizations that overshoot their resource base--a shape that's called decline. Mention that in most circles these days, and you'll get the nervous silence or the too-loud rebuttal that tells you that you've strayed across the line and mentioned the theme of the conversation everybody's trying to avoid. The decline of industrial society is a reality we are already facing, as real incomes shrink, quality-of-life indexes stumble downhill, and high-end technological projects such as the space program wind down. As resources keep on depleting and wastes build up, in turn, the decline is accelerating, and it's a safe bet at this point that much of what counts as an ordinary life in today's industrial nations will go away forever in the decades ahead of us. The time to prevent that was thirty years ago, and we didn't. It really is as simple as that.

Thus it's time to stop pretending that the future we've spent so much time making for ourselves can be made to go away. It's time to get past the gaudy technologies that nobody's gotten around to building, the idealized energy sources that don't happen to work in the real world, the would-be mass movements that attract the usual handful of activists and nobody else, and all the rest of it. It's time to talk instead about the things that actually matter in the age of limits that's coming on the heels of the age of excess now ending -- about what can be saved, what must be let go, and what options might enable individuals, families, and communities to make it through the troubled years ahead.

That sort of talk isn't well suited to the comfortable distance provided by electronic media or the yawning gap between the speaker's lectern and the rows of chairs for the audience. A good part of it needs to take place in person, face to face with old friends, new friends, and people you might never have considered worth including in the discussion, but whose points of view can teach you something you need to know. It requires a willingness to use frank words about hard realities -- overshoot, decline, collapse -- without discarding the compassion that reminds us of what these realities will mean for the people caught up in them. That's the conversation that needs to happen now, as the age of limits begins, and it's the conversation a number of us hope to launch and to foster at the Age of Limits conference this Memorial Day weekend.
What a superb summary of the situation facing us collectively.

The world is facing decline over a process of decades and faces challenges for everybody including the activists on PS Forum.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Aurora

Re: Age of Limits conference

Post by Aurora »

Lord Beria3 wrote: What a superb summary of the situation facing us collectively.
+1. I do hope the conference transcripts will be made available.
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mobbsey
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Post by mobbsey »

I've been to a fair few of these, some where I was one of the mugs talking on the top table.

The problem is that these conferences are primarily populated by white affluent middle class types who are talking about the problems limits present to being white affluent and middle class and yet failing to reach any conclusion because that lifestyle is all they know -- and certain in the UK social stratification means that they rarely mix with those who are not living the white affluent middle class lifestyle. If they wanted to study these issues for real then they can just walk down the road to the local sink estate, but whenever I've suggested that a large section of the audience has reacted by uneasily shifting from buttock to buttock on their seats. Consequently what these conferences seem to do is end on an "positive" by espousing a belief that wind turbines or some great transnational agreement will save "us" from the awful outcome of a future with no iPads and lattes.

OK, so I'm being deliberately provocative in the way I phrased that -- but that whole attitude represents as much of a block to progress, certain in the environment movement generally and certain parts of Transition; because it cannot internalise the reality of how, in recorded human history, how exceptionally abnormal that lifestyle is.
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Post by moimitou »

Mobbsey - I am not sure, Dmitry Orlov doesn't seem to be part of that kind of people. He maybe has the same background, but has his feet on the ground. At least I think so from what I heard him say.

I don't know the others in depth.
Peak oil conscious since July 2010.
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mobbsey
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Post by mobbsey »

moimitou wrote:Mobbsey - I am not sure, Dmitry Orlov doesn't seem to be part of that kind of people. He maybe has the same background, but has his feet on the ground. At least I think so from what I heard him say.
True, and sitting through one of my sessions isn't exactly as touchy-feely as Rob Hopkins or Ben Brangwyn. Buy that's precisely the point. People listen, but they're not necessarily willing to engage their full cognitive faculties because that would result in some very unpleasant realisations.

I think my favourite was a woman who came to me at the end absolutely fuming. "You've got to give people something positive they can do even when there's nothing they can do to solve the problem" (I must admit, I had to do an internal reset before responding to that one!). My reply was something along the lines of the mass popularity of self-delusion in our modern age, at which point she went off and gave grief to the organisers instead.

As Kunstler said, it's such fun bursting their reality bubbles! :twisted:
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Post by Tarrel »

mobbsey wrote:I've been to a fair few of these, some where I was one of the mugs talking on the top table.

The problem is that these conferences are primarily populated by white affluent middle class types who are talking about the problems limits present to being white affluent and middle class and yet failing to reach any conclusion because that lifestyle is all they know -- and certain in the UK social stratification means that they rarely mix with those who are not living the white affluent middle class lifestyle. If they wanted to study these issues for real then they can just walk down the road to the local sink estate, but whenever I've suggested that a large section of the audience has reacted by uneasily shifting from buttock to buttock on their seats. Consequently what these conferences seem to do is end on an "positive" by espousing a belief that wind turbines or some great transnational agreement will save "us" from the awful outcome of a future with no iPads and lattes.

OK, so I'm being deliberately provocative in the way I phrased that -- but that whole attitude represents as much of a block to progress, certain in the environment movement generally and certain parts of Transition; because it cannot internalise the reality of how, in recorded human history, how exceptionally abnormal that lifestyle is.
This is a little off-topic, but you might be interested in reading "Kids at the Door" by Bob Holman. Holman was a social worker who went on to become Professor of Social Policy at Bath University. He became frustrated by the distance between the theory of what he was teaching, and the day to day reality of poverty. So, he upped sticks and moved, complete with his young family, to a council estate in Bath. There he set about creating community youth projects from the ground up, initially using his own home as a meeting place. He later moved to Easterhouse in Glasgow and did a similar thing. I think he's still active there now.

See here for an interview:

http://www.holyrood.com/articles/2011/1 ... interview/
Aurora

Post by Aurora »

Tarrel wrote:This is a little off-topic, but you might be interested in reading "Kids at the Door" by Bob Holman. Holman was a social worker who went on to become Professor of Social Policy at Bath University. He became frustrated by the distance between the theory of what he was teaching, and the day to day reality of poverty. So, he upped sticks and moved, complete with his young family, to a council estate in Bath. There he set about creating community youth projects from the ground up, initially using his own home as a meeting place. He later moved to Easterhouse in Glasgow and did a similar thing. I think he's still active there now.

See here for an interview:

http://www.holyrood.com/articles/2011/1 ... interview/
Thanks for that Tarrel.

What a guy!

It was very humbling and indeed, shocking at times, to read about some of Bob's experiences.

I will certainly make an effort to obtain his book. :)
moimitou
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Post by moimitou »

mobbsey wrote: True, and sitting through one of my sessions isn't exactly as touchy-feely as Rob Hopkins or Ben Brangwyn.
So, do you cater to people of all backgrounds? If so, how do you do that? If not, what are the backgrounds of your attendees?

I have the feeling Rob Hopkins went through all the process of realizing the implications of collapse, and as a response to it, chose a different route to other people talking about such things.

IMHO, all different approaches are necessary, one more scientific and realistic for those ready to listen, and another more positive, action-oriented, etc to cater to those who have no idea of what is going on.

Transition Towns is how I got to know about all these things, my views have since shifted. I think Rob's approach is good at getting more ppl talking about these issues which can be alienating for most people.
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Post by snow hope »

mobbsey wrote:The problem is that these conferences are primarily populated by white affluent middle class types who are talking about the problems limits present to being white affluent and middle class and yet failing to reach any conclusion because that lifestyle is all they know -- and certain in the UK social stratification means that they rarely mix with those who are not living the white affluent middle class lifestyle. If they wanted to study these issues for real then they can just walk down the road to the local sink estate, but whenever I've suggested that a large section of the audience has reacted by uneasily shifting from buttock to buttock on their seats. Consequently what these conferences seem to do is end on an "positive" by espousing a belief that wind turbines or some great transnational agreement will save "us" from the awful outcome of a future with no iPads and lattes.

OK, so I'm being deliberately provocative in the way I phrased that -- but that whole attitude represents as much of a block to progress, certain in the environment movement generally and certain parts of Transition; because it cannot internalise the reality of how, in recorded human history, how exceptionally abnormal that lifestyle is.
I think this is a very fair and accurate criticism and I understand your obvious frustration Paul. But we have to start somewhere and it can only do good to talk and communicate the up-coming problems, even if people don't fully understand the implications. To me it is like taking two or three steps to where people are going to have to get to. At least if they take the first step, then it is possible they could take then go on to take the second and third in due course.
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Post by mobbsey »

moimitou wrote:So, do you cater to people of all backgrounds? If so, how do you do that? If not, what are the backgrounds of your attendees?
Before I entered the "eco-soothsaying" game of energy and resources back in 2001/2 I'd spent the previous 12/14 years working on planning, pollution and local government with some of the poorest communities around the UK. Lots of inner city activist/faith groups, former coalfield communities, etc. If your local council were dumping toxic waste or generally shafting the poorest residents with dodgy developments and you asked FoE/Greenpeace et. al. for help you'd be sent a membership leaflet. From the late 80s/early 90s I developed a reputation helping these groups, and when I turned full time environmental consultant in 1992 I used my "professional" work to cross-subsidize work with these communities.

I still have all those connections, and for the last decade I've been doing 'peak everything' related workshops in the poorest parts of London, Leeds, etc., usually as part of other activities or on the back of helping them with another issue. What most people don't understand about "sink" communities is that you have to be invited in; if you turn up and start spouting they'll take whatever they can get and take no notice. People in these communities have been subject to the whims of do-gooders for decades, and it hasn't transformed their lot -- and for that reason they have a very healthy and well-informed scepticism of all these kinds of scheme (contrary to popular culture, people in these communities are not stupid, in fact they're sharp enough to know when they should milk the system and when they should just ignore it).

So, you have to be invited in, and you have to solve the problems they want addressed and build in the awareness raising as part of that process -- and it has to involve simple and straightforward methods to change their lifestyles because these people don't have lives where they can made grandiose plans and schemes work. Most of all, you have to respect their generally brusk attitude to middle class meddling because they've had years of the same without much to show for it. But the most important factor is understanding the different mind-set of working with people who have bugger all -- both the 'white' community and immigrant groups (actually, immigrant groups can be easier to work with as they still have a basic solidarity between them, something that was crushed from white communities by Thatcherism). I can get that because that's the community I came from in Banbury. It's also why, when posting on PS, if I have a scepticism of "campaigns" or "lobbying" its because I'm always more concerned about how the plan will work in these communities, not just the world-view of the affluent chattering classes who evolve most of these "big ideas".
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