Greece Watch...

Discussion of the latest Peak Oil news (please also check the Website News area below)

Moderator: Peak Moderation

User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13496
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Post by UndercoverElephant »

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_ar ... 012_437932
Another finding in a recent opinion poll, which will doubtlessly worry creditors, is that seven out of 10 Greeks want to remain in the eurozone but without austerity. The survey by polling firm MRB for Real News found that 66 percent of respondents do not want Greece to return to the drachma but also oppose the austerity measures imposed by creditors in return for foreign loans. T
More money for nothing, please! :roll:
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin
Posts: 14290
Joined: 20 Sep 2006, 02:35
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
Contact:

Post by kenneal - lagger »

Shows just how many people are living in cloud cuckoo land in Greece. We have a few equivalents: the people who turn down a job because they are better off on benefits: public servants who think their pensions are affordable by the rest of us: teachers who think they are doing a great job when there are job vacancies in the country which can't be filled because our school leavers don't have the right qualifications or attitude. I could go on.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
User avatar
Ludwig
Posts: 3849
Joined: 08 Jul 2008, 00:31
Location: Cambridgeshire

Post by Ludwig »

kenneal - lagger wrote:Shows just how many people are living in cloud cuckoo land in Greece. We have a few equivalents: the people who turn down a job because they are better off on benefits: public servants who think their pensions are affordable by the rest of us: teachers who think they are doing a great job when there are job vacancies in the country which can't be filled because our school leavers don't have the right qualifications or attitude. I could go on.
The latter is a self-perpetuating problem. You can't just blame it on the existing teachers.

The school syllabus is also so undemanding now that it is difficult to be a good teacher now even if you want to be one. I have a teacher friend who bemoans the fact that he's supposed to instill in his pupils not discipline, but "self-respect" - in other words, to discourage pupils from accepting his own authority.

Teachers are also told they they should be "learning from their pupils" rather than teaching them. You couldn't make it up; it's like something from Lewis Carroll or Jonathan Swift.

As for pensions: it's only natural that public sector workers want to protect their benefits. I think most of us would do the same and protest if told our employment benefits were to be cut. (Not sure I would, but I know how dire the situation is. With my friends in the public sector, when I talk about Peak Oil, it goes in one ear and out the other.)
"We're just waiting, looking skyward as the days go down / Someone promised there'd be answers if we stayed around."
User avatar
woodpecker
Posts: 851
Joined: 06 Jan 2009, 01:20
Location: London

Post by woodpecker »

There are many kinds of cuckoo land. Like the project manager/professional who was working for a local authority, and whose work was 'connected' to the deaths of several people. On gardening leave on full pay years later, with no sign of the situation being brought to any conclusion...
User avatar
Ludwig
Posts: 3849
Joined: 08 Jul 2008, 00:31
Location: Cambridgeshire

Post by Ludwig »

woodpecker wrote:There are many kinds of cuckoo land. Like the project manager/professional who was working for a local authority, and whose work was 'connected' to the deaths of several people. On gardening leave on full pay years later, with no sign of the situation being brought to any conclusion...
Not sure this is cloud-cuckoo land, so much as that some people are above the law.

A senior director of a company that I am familiar with was once let off a driving ban, because, it was argued, his not being able to drive to work would have been to the detriment of the company.

Then there's the dozens of deaths in police custody that happen every year that always turn out to be nobody's fault in particular.
"We're just waiting, looking skyward as the days go down / Someone promised there'd be answers if we stayed around."
User avatar
emordnilap
Posts: 14815
Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
Location: here

Post by emordnilap »

There's an interesting debate on an Irish tv programme (here) which brings up a favourite idea of mine - issuing a local currency (the punt, purely within the republic, given freely to the public) and 1-to-1-replacing and handing back 'damaged' euros.

Steve Keen, the guy proposing this, doesn't get chance to take the idea further, particularly regarding those not in debt, but still, great to hear it aired.

Mr Keen has a grasp on economic matters which suit his surname.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13496
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Post by UndercoverElephant »

kenneal - lagger wrote: teachers who think they are doing a great job when there are job vacancies in the country which can't be filled because our school leavers don't have the right qualifications or attitude. I could go on.
To be fair, that's not usually the fault of the teachers. It is the fault of the people who designed the system. If there aren't enough carpenters being produced in the UK (and there aren't) then there is something wrong with the way we decide what to teach. As for the attitude problems - those are a reflection of society in general and the teachers have had their hands tied by changes to the law which placed all the real power in the hands of the children.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
Aurora

Post by Aurora »

The Guardian - 01/05/12

Eurozone crisis live: May Day austerity protests in Greece; Venizelos warns euro membership at risk.

Pasok leader has told the Guardian that upcoming election is Greece's biggest challenge since military junta was overturned in 1974.

Article continues ...
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13496
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Post by UndercoverElephant »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17975370
Greek main parties 'suffer big losses' at polls

Exit polls in the Greek parliamentary election suggest the two main parties have suffered big losses.

The polls, televised across Greece, put the centre-right New Democracy party in the lead with 17-20% of the vote.

Syriza, a coalition of left-wing parties, is put just in second place with centre-left Pasok third.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
User avatar
biffvernon
Posts: 18538
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Lincolnshire
Contact:

Post by biffvernon »

Meanwhile the French have decided to give up on Austerity and go for Growth.

I wonder what with.
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13496
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Post by UndercoverElephant »

biffvernon wrote:Meanwhile the French have decided to give up on Austerity and go for Growth.

I wonder what with.
Money printed by the ECB, except the ECB is none too keen on the plan.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
User avatar
biffvernon
Posts: 18538
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Lincolnshire
Contact:

Post by biffvernon »

Still, better to have a nice bloke at the helm than a nasty one.
User avatar
frank_begbie
Posts: 817
Joined: 18 Aug 2010, 12:01
Location: Cheshire

Post by frank_begbie »

biffvernon wrote:Still, better to have a nice bloke at the helm than a nasty one.
They can all give him a salute as the ship goes down :lol:
"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
User avatar
Lord Beria3
Posts: 5066
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 20:57
Location: Moscow Russia
Contact:

Post by Lord Beria3 »

biffvernon wrote:Meanwhile the French have decided to give up on Austerity and go for Growth.

I wonder what with.
Maybe that is what the French people think but as my WSWS link shows, it is a total fraud.

Anyway, as somebody who recognises PO Biff, you understand that the whole growth thing is doomed anyway due to PO.

Growth can only come now (in the developed world) from ever more printing money (if the ECB carries on...) which leads to notional growth even as the real economy and real wages at best stagnate or actually decline.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
User avatar
Lord Beria3
Posts: 5066
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 20:57
Location: Moscow Russia
Contact:

Post by Lord Beria3 »

Anyway, on the subject of Greece, this is a far more important election in some ways for the eurozone.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... ls-parties
Governing parties backing EU-mandated austerity in Greece are on course for a major drubbing as hard-hit voters, venting their fury in elections, defected in droves, according to exit polls.

In a major upset that will not be welcomed by the crisis-plagued country's eurozone partners, the two forces that had agreed to enact unpopular belt-tightening in return for rescue funds appeared headed for a beating, with none being able to form a government.

After nearly 40 years of dominating the Greek political scene, the centre-right New Democracy and socialist Pasok saw support drop dramatically in favour of parties that had virulently opposed the tough austerity dictated by international creditors.


The latest figures showed New Democracy leading with between 19 – 20.5% of the vote, followed by the radical leftist party, Syriza, with as much as 17% and socialist party Pasok with between 13 – 14 %. And for the first time since the collapse of military rule, ultra-nationalists were also set to enter parliament with polls showing the neo-Nazi Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) capturing as much as 8%.
So it looks like public tolerance for EU cuts has finally collapsed in Greece... will they get further bailouts? Will Greece survive in the eurozone.

I sense that the time for a final decision on Greece fate is looming this year for Europe's leaders... should be very interesting.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Post Reply