Lord Beria3 wrote:According to you the majority of politicans are aware of PO - so why haven't they all joined the group on PO?!
Of course the majority of MPs are aware of PO! They may not agree it represents an insurmountable problem, or that it's likely to occur with in the next few years, but I'm fairly sure essentially all MPs understand the basic concept of peak oil.
There are very good reasons why they might choose to ignore it and certainly choose not to sign up to APPGOPO - but one shouldn't take from that they aren't aware.
Sorry - don't buy it mate.
A tiny proportion of MPs have joined that group, if they were all aware and concerned about PO you would find a at least a quarter/third members.
Get real, your average MP is pretty clueless, about as bad as your typical member of the public.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Lord Beria3 wrote:According to you the majority of politicans are aware of PO - so why haven't they all joined the group on PO?!
Of course the majority of MPs are aware of PO! They may not agree it represents an insurmountable problem, or that it's likely to occur with in the next few years, but I'm fairly sure essentially all MPs understand the basic concept of peak oil.
There are very good reasons why they might choose to ignore it and certainly choose not to sign up to APPGOPO - but one shouldn't take from that they aren't aware.
Sorry - don't buy it mate.
A tiny proportion of MPs have joined that group, if they were all aware and concerned about PO you would find a at least a quarter/third members.
Get real, your average MP is pretty clueless, about as bad as your typical member of the public.
We're going to disagree on this one. I think you are dead wrong to associate not joining APPGOPO with being ignorant about PO.
There are good reasons why an MP will choose not to join and indeed, not to say a word about PO in public even though they have a good understanding. Peak oil is a problem that, if admitted demands attention (unlike climate change which can be accepted/admitted and yet significant action deferred). If a politician can avoid or put off doing something, they will. Attention to PO basically means saying 'no' to things. Saying no is unlikely to win votes. Secondly, admitting peak oil undermines some fundamental assumptions upon which this whole system rests. How do you square peak oil this decade with clearing the deficit by growing the economy at 3%? Admitting peak oil opens a horrible can of worms with no political upside during relevant time scales.
PO is not a 'cool' thing to be associated with. It's tarnished with all kinds of baggage from Malthus and Limits to Growth to 9/11 conspiracy theories. It's simply not an area your average MP wants to venture if they can possible avoid it. This does not mean they don't have a reasonable understanding though.
JavaScript Donkey wrote:No, Government isn't that clever. These events are just the result of incompetence.
Remember, the only requirement to become PM is to be popular enough to get voted in.
Its comments like this, that make me even more suspicious.
"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
Lord Beria3 wrote:Get real, your average MP is pretty clueless, about as bad as your typical member of the public.
You are very out of touch with reality here LB. How many MPs have you met and had discussions with? To state that an average MP is as clueless as a typical member of the public, states more about you than you might realise I am afraid.
We can all make mistakes and get things wrong - it is called being human. It is better to hold your hand up and admit to it than to keep digging the hole...... just a friendly suggestion.
Even if you are right and most MP's do have this hidden knowledge of PO, if they never join any PO group, never discuss the topic in public and never propose any legislation/laws/public awareness on the issue, they might as well not know about PO!!
BTW, my statement on MP knowledge/understanding was strictly do do with PO, not in generality.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Lord Beria3 wrote:BTW, my statement on MP knowledge/understanding was strictly do do with PO, not in generality.
Ahh, thanks for that clarification, I admit I did read it as in general.
I am very critical of MPs and agree with you that they are being very leaderless in terms of bringing this critical issue to the fore. But if you re-read Chris's post, you will see why this is such a difficult issue for them to raise.
I would say that politicans are bringing legislation to bear both here in the UK and in the US and other countries, but it is being done in a roundabout way, that does not involve admitting the core problem. Some of the legislation revolves around security and emergency powers - I am sure you know what I am referring to and some is around energy "security", etc.
Lord Beria3 wrote:BTW, my statement on MP knowledge/understanding was strictly do do with PO, not in generality.
Ahh, thanks for that clarification, I admit I did read it as in general.
Why would they be clued up on everything else, but not PO? Sorry. Don't buy it.
There are far more convincing explanations for why politicians don't talk about PO.
Based on my experience of one MP she's pretty clued up on some things but admits relative ignorance on others. Bit like everybody IMHO.
Rather worringly she relies on briefing papers for information which appears to be a weak link. Influence the author and you can sway a lot of MPs apparently
Lord Beria3 wrote:BTW, my statement on MP knowledge/understanding was strictly do do with PO, not in generality.
Ahh, thanks for that clarification, I admit I did read it as in general.
Why would they be clued up on everything else, but not PO? Sorry. Don't buy it.
There are far more convincing explanations for why politicians don't talk about PO.
I stand by my view that, "the vast majority of our MPs are well aware of the impending oil decline and at least have some sensible understanding of what that means to the our current way of life. "
I think LB is very wrong in his judgement in this area, although in addition I also thought he was trying to say they knew little about anything - hence why I was pleased to see the clarification he provided.
snow hope wrote:
Ahh, thanks for that clarification, I admit I did read it as in general.
Why would they be clued up on everything else, but not PO? Sorry. Don't buy it.
There are far more convincing explanations for why politicians don't talk about PO.
I stand by my view that, "the vast majority of our MPs are well aware of the impending oil decline and at least have some sensible understanding of what that means to the our current way of life. "
Agreed and fracking is one of their answers to PO.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Agreed and fracking is one of their answers to PO.
+1
Historians in the future will probably look at Fracking as one of the last desperate attempts by our civilisation to hang on to our fossil-fuel-derived lifestyle. Somewhat like the desperate smoker who, deprived of cigarettes, picks up all the dog-ends off the pavement in order to get the tobacco out and make one last roll-up.
Agreed and fracking is one of their answers to PO.
+1
Historians in the future will probably look at Fracking as one of the last desperate attempts by our civilisation to hang on to our fossil-fuel-derived lifestyle. Somewhat like the desperate smoker who, deprived of cigarettes, picks up all the dog-ends off the pavement in order to get the tobacco out and make one last roll-up.
Hahaha so true!
"Unfortunately, the Fed can't print oil"
---Ben Bernake (2011)
Historians in the future will probably look at Fracking as one of the last desperate attempts by our civilisation to hang on to our fossil-fuel-derived lifestyle.
What historians be that then? LOL
Every one will be so busy killing each other / trying to survive / becoming isolationist that 'historians' will probably be part of the church - and we know what a mess that got us into
Historians in the future will probably look at Fracking as one of the last desperate attempts by our civilisation to hang on to our fossil-fuel-derived lifestyle.
What historians be that then? LOL
Every one will be so busy killing each other / trying to survive / becoming isolationist that 'historians' will probably be part of the church - and we know what a mess that got us into
Ah, the world according to the word.
I was thinking further ahead, to whatever civilisation emerges or evolves from ours. However, the first half of the 21st century may well end up being shrouded in mystery if we undergo a collapse and move into another dark age. In that case historians will be free to imagine whatever they want about what life was like in our time, no doubt influenced by the doctrines of their time.
Who knows..disused oil rigs and refineries may be unearthed and thought of as some kind of ancient religious temple of worship (which of course, they are).
Tarrel wrote:[Who knows..disused oil rigs and refineries may be unearthed and thought of as some kind of ancient religious temple of worship (which of course, they are).
But they will decipher that instead of making pilgrimages to these remote shrines we instead made regular trips to the numerous numbered alters under canopies and made offerings to the oil gods. First with silver and gold then symbolic paper fake money, then with plastic fake fake money.
