Army training to deliver petrol in case of strike action

[adam2]

According to reports in a tabloid newspaper, road hauliers are going to blockade refineries and block motorways in support of the tanker drivers.
Remember the chaos last time ?

They claim that they will "bring down the government"

Such blockades are regularly threatened and usually nothing much happens, but it might be worse this time.

The recent "pre panic" is probably a good thing if individual drivers now have nearly full tanks rather than nearly empty.

Am I the only one to see the irony in road hauliers "fighting for cheaper fuel" being on the same side as tanker drivers seeking an improvement in wages, that if granted will INCREASE fuel costs !

[Mr. Fox]

Remember the chaos last time ?

Oh yes. Worth refreshing our memory, though... *Flashback!*

In the wake of the fuel crisis, there is increasing evidence that the oil industry colluded with protesters to cut the country's fuel supply. But why?

The answer lies in a story of machiavellian political manoeuvring. It is the story of how a group of multinationals can bring the government to its knees, and extract ever greater profits from the public finances. It's a story about tax, but not at the pump - it's about tax in the North Sea.

What happened during the last two days of the fuel crisis was a threat, a flexing of oil industry muscle in a strong warning to the government to leave the North Sea alone. The companies came close to showing they could bring down the government. And if Gordon Brown makes the wrong tax moves, they could try to go the whole way.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2000/ ... upplement6

Hmmm... Falsh forward a decade:

A GAAR (General Anti-Avoidance Rule) would act like a blanket legislation to differentiate between what counts as responsible tax planning and what is abusive tax avoidance.

It would apply initially to the main direct taxes of income tax, capital gains tax, corporation tax, and petroleum revenue tax, as well as National Insurance contributions.

In terms of the exact detail, more will emerge over the next year. The government will consult on the new rule and legislate for it in next year's Finance Bill.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17525977

Related?

[SleeperService]

According to reports in a tabloid newspaper, road hauliers are going to blockade refineries and block motorways in support of the tanker drivers.
Remember the chaos last time ?

They claim that they will "bring down the government"

Such blockades are regularly threatened and usually nothing much happens, but it might be worse this time.

The recent "pre panic" is probably a good thing if individual drivers now have nearly full tanks rather than nearly empty.

Am I the only one to see the irony in road hauliers "fighting for cheaper fuel" being on the same side as tanker drivers seeking an improvement in wages, that if granted will INCREASE fuel costs !

Been asking around and nobody seems to know anything. That suggests a really secret blockade that no participant is aware of. There have been some strange conversations with people along these lines but they seem to be reporters as it turns out

The last protests were led by independent hauliers but these are mostly swallowed up or on contract to the big hauliers. If the big boys don't like the protest (or anything else about you) you may as well sell your unit because you'll be hard pressed to find work.

[UndercoverElephant]

According to reports in a tabloid newspaper, road hauliers are going to blockade refineries and block motorways in support of the tanker drivers.
Remember the chaos last time ?

They claim that they will "bring down the government"

Such blockades are regularly threatened and usually nothing much happens, but it might be worse this time.

The recent "pre panic" is probably a good thing if individual drivers now have nearly full tanks rather than nearly empty.

Am I the only one to see the irony in road hauliers "fighting for cheaper fuel" being on the same side as tanker drivers seeking an improvement in wages, that if granted will INCREASE fuel costs !

Doesn't make much sense to me either.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17583971

The chairman of the body representing 5,000 independent petrol stations, has called for urgent talks with ministers amid signs of a fuel shortage sparked by panic buying.

Brian Madderson of the Retail Motor Industry (RMI) said up to half his members were short of fuel.

Petrol stations say they are struggling to restock after last week's run on the pumps and the RMI estimates shortages could continue until at least the Easter weekend and possibly beyond.

All this chaos because of a strike that didn't even happen?

It's going to be pretty spectacular when the real problems start.

[PS_RalphW]

Who knows, with the recent refinery closures, perhaps this is the start of the real problems. Perhaps the oil companies will not be able to rebalance their JIT system, and the public will become sensitised to real or imaginary spot shortages and go into repeated self-fulfilling fuel panics even without media fanning the flames, leading to chaos and price surges and the tanker drivers going on strike for real and and ...

Hoarding may become endemic.

[biffvernon]

Cars may be carrying an extra 20kg load these days. How much more fuel is used across the nation if the average vehicle travels with a tank that is nearer to full rather than nearer to empty?

[SleeperService]

Cars may be carrying an extra 20kg load these days. How much more fuel is used across the nation if the average vehicle travels with a tank that is nearer to full rather than nearer to empty?

Ditto empty roof racks and those 'streamlined' roof boxes, and, in my case at least, quite a bit of extra body weight that I should get serious about losing

[adam2]

Cars may be carrying an extra 20kg load these days. How much more fuel is used across the nation if the average vehicle travels with a tank that is nearer to full rather than nearer to empty?

It is not that much, since the extra weight is a very small proprtion of the total weight of the vehicle and contents.
Assuming an average gross vehicle weight of one ton for private cars, than the weight is increased by 2%.
Extra weight increases fuel consumption, but not in proportion to the extra weight, I would expect 2% extra weight to increase fuel used by about 1%.

In the absence of any concerns regarding fuel supply there is a small but real saving in not keeping the tank fuller than needed.
If shortages threaten, then keeping the tank reasonably full is sensible.

Better still to use a diesel car and keep a good supply of diesel in cans, but only a little in the car.

[extractorfan]

Cars may be carrying an extra 20kg load these days. How much more fuel is used across the nation if the average vehicle travels with a tank that is nearer to full rather than nearer to empty?

I was under the impression that the energy saved in getting fuel to the engine on a full tank was greater than the energy saved from the weight reduction in running a car low on fuel.

Surely some siencey type on here can clarify. It was PO.com years ago that made me think this and since then I've (almost) always had the tank half full or more, thinking this has saved me £££.

Edit: oh thanks adam2! What about the fuel pump energy saving?

[SleeperService]

Cars may be carrying an extra 20kg load these days. How much more fuel is used across the nation if the average vehicle travels with a tank that is nearer to full rather than nearer to empty?

I was under the impression that the energy saved in getting fuel to the engine on a full tank was greater than the energy saved from the weight reduction in running a car low on fuel.

Surely some siencey type on here can clarify. It was PO.com years ago that made me think this and since then I've (almost) always had the tank half full or more, thinking this has saved me £££.

Edit: oh thanks adam2! What about the fuel pump energy saving?

The fuel pump in a modern car is constantly pumping the same volume of fuel, some goes into the engine the rest is returned to the fuel tank. As this increases pressure in the fuel tank the fuel pump uses a little less electric but there is a bit more fuel wasted as the fuel cap is not quite gas tight after a while in service. That's why the fuel filler cover isn't sealed completely.

adam2 is quite right in his assumptions. The extra weight is only a relatively significant matter when accelerating (including going uphill of course). At a constant speed the extra use is tiny. That's where drag becomes the killer hence my post above.

Of course this all pales into insignificance if you have to detour twenty miles to find fuel

[adam2]

The fuel pump in most vehicles would have to work slightly harder with a near empty tank, since the fuel is being pumped through a greater vertical height.
The energy used should be negligable, I doubt that it could be measured.
The energy used in lifting fuel a meter or so is negligable.

[extractorfan]

erm....arse, feel foolish now

[biffvernon]

So we obviously need to keep the fuel in a roof-top box and have gravity feed.

[adam2]

The proposed tanker drivers strike is now "yesterdays news" and not much reported, but it could still be on.
Details here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17753488

I wonder if those who rushed to fill up a few weeks ago have KEPT tanks nearly full, or if a new panic will ensue.

[extractorfan]

I wonder if those who rushed to fill up a few weeks ago have KEPT tanks nearly full,...

I sincerely hope so.