Pensions in the future?

What changes can we make to our lives to deal with the economic and energy crises ahead? Have you already started making preparations? Got tips to share?

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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

LastDrop wrote:Wow, it looks like a lot of people have had really bad experiences with pension providers.

I already have some physical gold and silver which I bought several years ago which has done very well for me. I'm guessing now is the time to buy a second batch. I've read a fair few comments suggesting that it is cheap now but it looks very expensive compared to when I last bought!

Lord Beria> I'll take a look at dividend-yielding stocks and blue-chip corporate bonds. Do you know of any funds that focus on blue chips in strong positions that are exposed to emerging countries? How would I find this sort of information out?

I should also take a good look at farmland. I'm not sure where to start on that though.

Renewable Candy > I was born in '75 so unfortunately my pension isn't a final salary one. I don't have children but I would have definitely followed your advice if I had have done. I would have hated to have the noose of debt around me that most graduates will grow up with now. I've done everything I can to avoid being trapped by debt.
The money sections in the broadsheets regularly recommend good funds like these.

http://funds.telegraph.co.uk/clients/telegraph/

http://www.trustnet.com/Factsheets/Fact ... Code=EGFN5

The latter is an example of something you want, but I suggest you do some research online and find what is best for you.

If you want, I can send you a PM of the fund I have put my money in.

Regarding land, I have found this plot of land on sale for fifty grand. Savills would arrange the rent of that land and so on, this is something I plan to do once I have sufficient capital together.

http://farmsandestatessearch.savills.co ... 63613/list

Long-term, this should do as well as blue-chip assets, maybe better if the economy eventually collapses - land will be the best asset to have.
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Mr. Fox
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Post by Mr. Fox »

Here's Orlov again with his thoughts on the subject... (a long one, but worth it! :))
Friday, April 01, 2011
Financial Totalitarianism

A particularly annoying question I am often asked and have come to hate is: “How do I invest my money for it to survive financial, political and commercial collapse?” The short answer is: “Nohow. Money will not survive collapse; not yours, not anyone else's.” But that answer is not acceptable, because accepting it would require a profound loss of faith—faith in money, a profound Götterdämmerung for a civilization based on the worship of money. People want to continue to believe all sorts of things: that they can own land (i.e., shares in the Earth), or that they can do good through philanthrophic spending and charity, or that the world with which they have grown up and have lived their lives can collapse all around them, but that if they are informed and prepared, they can survive with all of their middle-class trappings intact. I am told that there is good money to be made in telling them such things.

Those who care to look can easily turn up plenty of evidence that the value of every type of financial asset, not just fiat currency or debt instruments, is unsupported. Its value derives from the goods and services provided by a functioning global industrial economy, which is quickly running out of every type of resource it requires; not just high-EROEI fossil fuels, but also metals, rare earth elements, phosphate, irrigation water and arable land. As industrial activity dwindles, worker productivity will decline precipitously. Many people point to precious metals as the ultimate storehouse of value, but without industrial equipment a man can only put out about 100 Watts of energy—a light bulb's worth—and won't dance any faster no matter how many gold or silver coins you throw at him.

This eventual outcome is the result of long-term physical trends: physical processes that move at predetermined rates and in only one direction. It is not possible to un-burn oil or coal or to un-mine gold or silver. But the short-term political and financial trends point in an altogether different direction: that of the global industrial economy turning boutique. You see, one shoe has already dropped: the level of industrial activity that can be sustained today is already insufficient to provide anywhere near full employment and a reasonable quality of life for vast numbers of people; the solution is to disenfranchise them, to confiscate their savings, to cancel their retirements, to concentrate all of the remaining wealth in as few hands as possible, and to create a boutique economic and financial environment in which the lucky and unscrupulous few can continue to live comfortably, and... wait for the other shoe to drop, I suppose. That will happen once the industrial economy becomes sufficiently disrupted by social and political upheaval that even its boutique version finally crashes.

A feeble (feeble-minded?) counter-reaction to these trends can be discerned: many people want to somehow find an escape from this system while still clinging to their money. This may seem like a contradiction in terms—“fleeing the money system while clinging to the money itself”—but this point seems lost on many people. Most of this counter-reaction is focused on the stampede to precious metals (gold and silver). This train of thought starts out as a smart market play: precious metals have been and continue to be a spectacular investment, and a good way to avoid being robbed blind by the out-of-control printing presses at the US Treasury. But eventually it goes off into ontological self-delusion—that gold and silver are “real” money, as opposed to paper fiat currency, which is “fake” money. Ladies and gentlemen, it doesn't matter whether or not it's shiny; it's all as real or as fake as you are. Some people go straight over the edge and decide to take the law into their own hands and, waving about a dog-eared copy of the US Constitution, set off to coin their own “coin of the realm,” not realizing that the realm isn't theirs. If the realm is financially stable, it will simply change the rules to make such a gambit unprofitable. If the realm is financially distressed and teetering on the verge of collapse, it will panic, shout “Terrorism!” at the slightest provocation, and the result is long-term political imprisonment for the ontologically deluded:
March 21, 2011

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A North Carolina man was convicted for creating and distributing a counterfeit currency that was very similar to the real dollar, a U.S. Attorney said.

Bernard von NotHaus, 67, minted Liberty Dollar coins in the value of $7 million dollars. The conviction concludes an investigation that was started in 2005.

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” Anne Tompkins, U.S. Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina, said in a statement on Friday.

“While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country,” she said.
This Reuters story has since been taken down, after being ignored by media in the US (but not in Russia). Von NotHaus is looking at 20 years in jail. This is a lot, you might think, for stamping some politically edgy shiny trinkets, but then Stalin gave out similarly long sentences to millions of people for doing absolutely nothing, so let us count our blessings. Let's get one thing straight, though: in the United States, by law, anyone who, “except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design . . .” faces a fine or imprisonment. It is the same in every other country: the term “coin of the realm” implies that it is the realm that controls creation of all coinage and its circulation. You can wave your US Constitution around, or you can swat flies with it, or you can use it as kindling: the result will be exactly the same.

You cannot create your own global money system, and you cannot change the way the global money system works; either you are part of it, or you are out. Most of us lack the ability to sever all ties with the financial realm, but, as with so many things, having the right attitude is very helpful. To that end, let me drop a Bible-bomb on you. (I do this as someone quite free of any religious sentiment; I just find the Bible to be an interesting and useful work of world literature, filled with highly quotable, pithy remarks.) Here's a particularly nice quote from the Beatitudes: “Blessed are the poor in spirit.” Never has a truer phrase been written. Many of the more recent self-styled or so-called “Christians” have attempted to distort it to mean that it doesn't imply depriving yourself of any worldly goods, and that “poor in spirit” is a special, strictly spiritual sort of poverty. That is, of course, nonsense. You do not have to dig deep for the real meaning: “Poor” just means “poor,” and “in spirit” means “on purpose, not as a result of, say, injustice, misfortune, or being lazy, stupid or a gambler.” Oh, and “blessed” means “not damned.” Accordingly, Christian monks take the vow of non-acquisitiveness, which is a virtue, with the corresponding vices of stinginess (“what is mine is mine”) and greed (“what is yours is mine”). It is rather difficult to embrace such basic tenets while remaining within a culture that has elevated avariciousness and rapaciousness to the status of virtues. But here is a key insight: being poor on purpose is much easier than being poor as a result of suddenly having less than you are accustomed to having. Voluntary poverty is a hell of a lot easier than involuntary poverty.

And so, the answer to the perennially annoying question “How do I invest my money for it to survive financial, political and commercial collapse?” is this: “There is no answer to your question. Try asking a different question, to which there might be an answer.”
Being somewhat 'poor in spirit' myself, I've often though how much worse all this would be if I had further to fall. ;)
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

LastDrop wrote:Wow, it looks like a lot of people have had really bad experiences with pension providers.
In Ireland, most people putting money into a pension (a 'PRSA') over the last 10 years or so got thoroughly shafted and they cannot get what's left of the money out.

As I said to one rep. of a pension company, "This pension fund is going down year on year. With government levies and your 'management charges', by the time I retire, I'll owe you."
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madibe
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Post by madibe »

To reply to the OP: just forget about retirement. Period.

When the day job packs in or you can't do it / live with it / tolerate it / be arsed, then move onto plan B.

You have got a plan B?

The days of G&T on the beach are gone for all but the pricks we have all been paying for. So you need a plan B. Something you do well and enjoy, perhaps not too physical or taxing (no pun intended).

My plan B is now at about 50% of the day job - so that along with any meagre pension should see life tolerable. 8)

Now the only worry is the mortgage shortfall :? But hey, your'e a long time dead.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Save the max in a cash ISA that you can get hold of easily but be ready to get it out at the slightest sign of a crash. As well as gold and silver keep a stash of cash, several months worth, in case of banking problems.

Have you super insulated your house and installed a flat top woodburner so you can keep warm and cook? Have you bought all the non electric tools that you might need in the future? Do you have a stash of long life foods/basic foods and the ability to grow some/most of your own?
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woodburner
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Post by woodburner »

kenneal - lagger wrote: Have you super insulated your house and installed a flat top woodburner so you can keep warm and cook?
This can present a problem in warm weather when you want to cook. You get overheated and can't get down to a comfortable temperature. A portable stove or one that can be used outside will be useful too.

Avoid pellet or woodchip stoves, they need a processed fuel which will be harder to find than a few sticks.

All this makes things much more difficult for those in towns and cities, since there are few resources to go round.
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LastDrop
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Post by LastDrop »

Have I got a plan B?

I am asking about pension investments as part of planning for 3 scenarios.

1) A 'Last Light'-style quick crash where we are forced to wear leathers and mohicans and form ourselves into protective bands. :-) They converted the top of our village into the set for a TV series called The Last Train and did a bunch of the filming on the moors out there. I think this is where my love of apocalyptic fiction comes from. I have some preparations in this area.

2) Slow collapse that takes us back through energy consumption at the rate it has built up over my life - Our house is well insulated and we do have a flat-top wood burning stove. Every year we have another bash at growing food but we have a few more preps planned in this area.

3) Business as usual/society copes reasonably well - something magic comes along and digs us out of this mess.

As part of 2) and 3) (and in the grey area between them) there is a situation where some income from invested money would be valuable. I'm not much of a spender and there is no opportunity to reduce my hours at work so I might as well invest it so I can afford to eat in retirement.

The other advantage of investing money is that depending on where it is invested it can help to promote change for good.
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Catweazle
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Post by Catweazle »

I think successive governments will plunder the pension funds to keep the institutions afloat, and the people quiet, for as long as possible.

This could mean no pension pot for most of us, so perhaps it's best to look at what you actually need to survive and start planning your own supply now. If you have the means try to plan enough spare capacity to support some family and friends too.
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bealers
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Re: Pensions in the future?

Post by bealers »

@LastDrop congratulations on being mortgage free.

If you already had a pension pot then I'd say convert into land, it's what I did anyway.

If not and assuming that your worldview is inline with most on here then I'd echo a lot of the comments regarding buying certain asset types (tools, make your house efficient, etc).

Do you have a plan B career path? Could you put the money towards training instead?

edit: Just saw your last post, you're obviously already some ways along the resilience path. I'd still focus in on re-training if there is no plan B (and C) income stream
paul m
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Post by paul m »

What is a pension?
woodburner
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Post by woodburner »

This may help. Or this if you have 3 hours to spare.

Edit: Having watched the first and last bits of the second link, there is an interesting section at 3:36:00 ish that shows the government stated position of the US Post Office. It looks surprisingly similar to the UK government claims about the Royal Mail.

Not so surprising is the whole system is rigged for the benefit of the politicians and corporations, while the rest of us are kept under the thumb bailing out the banks etc.
Last edited by woodburner on 06 Mar 2012, 07:12, edited 1 time in total.
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jonny2mad
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Post by jonny2mad »

1) A 'Last Light'-style quick crash where we are forced to wear leathers and mohicans and form ourselves into protective bands. Smile They converted the top of our village into the set for a TV series called The Last Train and did a bunch of the filming on the moors out there. I think this is where my love of apocalyptic fiction comes from. I have some preparations in this area.
:shock: Kinfolks who have been brought up with a belief they have a obligation to back you in a fight and look after you when your old , its only recently people in the west didn't want to have a load of sons thats pretty much still the view in most failed states in the third world .

Go to Afghanistan and you see family photos with lots of boys and ak47s go to the wild west you had similar photos but family's with colts and Winchesters even with the children are armed .

your property titles, your land, your gold, your farm animals, wont matter if you cant defend them so get kin from somewhere even if you have to adopt them.... ideally mean kin

And get guns
"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche

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Post by Tarrel »

Actually, I quite like the "leathers and mohicans" idea. What's the point of a crash if you can't do it in style?
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RenewableCandy
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Post by RenewableCandy »

I remember "The Last Train"...April 1999 and wasn't it set (in best apocalyptic style) in Sheffield?? I thought it was rather good.

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Post by Tarrel »

Wasn't that the one where they were looking for some place called "The Ark", which was supoosed to be a government enclave? I can't remember if they ever found it, or how the series ended.
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