Greece Watch...

[emordnilap]

Congress letting go of their ability to set their own wages?

[kenneal - lagger]

I watched a program the other night about Louis 16th of France. His inability to persuade the rich nobles and clergy in his court to pay any taxes resulted in the French Revolution. It sounded eerily familiar to me. It just proves that we don't learn from history.

[UndercoverElephant]

I watched a program the other night about Louis 16th of France. His inability to persuade the rich nobles and clergy in his court to pay any taxes resulted in the French Revolution. It sounded eerily familiar to me. It just proves that we don't learn from history.

Just had that exchange...

http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... highlight=

[vtsnowedin]

I agree that there are some cuts which could easily be made (like paying politicians less). But you still have the problem that the current system depends on economic growth and most of your cuts involve reducing the level of disposable income of large numbers of people.

But a dollar left in private hands will be spent more productively then any government program ever will.
It comes down to which of three alternatives gives the best outcome.
1.Balance the budget with spending cuts and let increased private sector activity make up the difference.
2. Balance the budget with tax increases which will put a drain on the economy.
or
3. Keep borrowing and spending until you run out of credit hoping a surge in the economy will grow you out of the problem before that happens.
Today's business news talking heads were predicting the US running out of credit within two to four years. Considering oil supply and world population numbers that seems quite plausible.
Perhaps we could move to option 2 to show people the true costs of the programs we are committed to then switch to option 1 as the majority can then agree on what to cut.

[vtsnowedin]

Congress letting go of their ability to set their own wages?

Hey a fella has to have a few dreams to cling too. Imagine if you will the mood in the congressional office building at budget time. "But.. but ... but Senator if you vote for the bill as currently written by our lobbyist you and I will take a twenty percent pay cut and that is on top of the thirty percent cut we took last session. My wife will have to get a job and I'll have to take my kids out of private school. etc.
Also if I was writing the needed amendment to the constitution it would include prohibiting congress from exempting themselves and staff from any laws and make them accept the same health and retirement benefits they deliver to the bottom fifty percent of the population.

[UndercoverElephant]

I agree that there are some cuts which could easily be made (like paying politicians less). But you still have the problem that the current system depends on economic growth and most of your cuts involve reducing the level of disposable income of large numbers of people.

But a dollar left in private hands will be spent more productively then any government program ever will.

Not necessarily. It depends which private hands it is left in. If it is being redirected from the poor to the rich, as you are advocating, it isn't likely to be spent at all.

It comes down to which of three alternatives gives the best outcome.
1.Balance the budget with spending cuts and let increased private sector activity make up the difference.
2. Balance the budget with tax increases which will put a drain on the economy.
or

Spending cuts drain the economy even more.

The US already has some of the lowest taxes in the world. Why do you want to lower them any more? It seems really weird from a non-US viewpoint.

Even the richest people in the US are saying they should be taxed more. I don't understand how such a situation exists.

[emordnilap]

Meanwhile the Greek minimum wage is to be cut to €480.

Per month.

Unless you're what they call an 'apprentice', in which case the minimum wage will be €350.

Nice.

[vtsnowedin]

The US already has some of the lowest taxes in the world. Why do you want to lower them any more? It seems really weird from a non-US viewpoint.

Even the richest people in the US are saying they should be taxed more. I don't understand how such a situation exists.

When did I say that I wanted to lower US taxes?
I am for a balanced budget and sound fiscal policy.
Cutting spending all the way down to the current level of tax revenue is a pipe dream. On the other hand just raising taxes on the rich enough to match the current level of spending is also impossible as the rich get to decide when they sell their stock and which stocks to sell so they can and will defer declaring taxable income to other times and perhaps even other countries.
So a tax increase will fall as always on the middle class where I sit just a little above and a bit to the right of dead center.
Deficit spending is as always a tax increase in and of itself as it commits me "Joe six pack" to paying it back later plus the accumulated interest and in reduced benefits to me as the country will not be able to pay the current bills plus pay off old debts.
We need a complete rewrite of the tax code to a code that taxes all income one time with no exceptions for money moved to trust funds or charitable foundations etc. Scores of other loop holes that don't benefit the majority of Americans need to be cut out. I expect that if done right there would need to be only three tax brackets with a top rate of twenty two percent. Such a code would generate more not less taxes.

[UndercoverElephant]

So a tax increase will fall as always on the middle class where I sit just a little above and a bit to the right of dead center.

What most Americans consider "dead center", most Europeans would call "centre-right." What most Europeans call "dead centre", most Americans would call "centre-left."

The United States is probably the most right-wing democracy I can think of, and has been for the whole of my life.

[vtsnowedin]

So a tax increase will fall as always on the middle class where I sit just a little above and a bit to the right of dead center.

What most Americans consider "dead center", most Europeans would call "centre-right." What most Europeans call "dead centre", most Americans would call "centre-left."

The United States is probably the most right-wing democracy I can think of, and has been for the whole of my life.

Other then Nationalised health care what left leaning program has the US not adopted? I'd say that America is about fifteen trillion too far to the left.

[energy-village]

Other then Nationalised health care what left leaning program has the US not adopted? I'd say that America is about fifteen trillion too far to the left.

You would like the US to be 'fifteen trillion' to the right?

Some sort of military dictatorship? The return of slavery?

[RenewableCandy]

What's the "defense" budget these days? Cuts needn't necessarily move a country to the right, after all.

[biffvernon]

Newsnight was pretty good on Greece tonight.

[kenneal - lagger]

Newsnight was pretty good on Greece tonight.

Pretty frightening, I'd say.

[biffvernon]

Yes, it was the casual acceptance of utter doom that seemed to characterise the post Paul Mason film discussion.