'Thinking Outside the Box' in 2012

[biffvernon]

I recommend it too, though I would, wouldn't I?

Which chapter did you write?

(One of the authors gave me a copy.)

[emordnilap]

I recommend it too, though I would, wouldn't I?

Which chapter did you write?

I'm not that clever. No, I meant its compilation was driven by thinkers over this side of the Irish sea.

[Potemkin Villager]

I recommend the book, with its contribution from our own Chris Vernon (clv101), very highly.

I recommend it too, though I would, wouldn't I? Luckily, there are contributions from Richard Douthwaite.

I love the chapter by Orlov about the boat building.

It is a big book with lots of contributors.

Do either of you have say a top 5 useful practical ideas from it
that you would recommend as being worth considering as clearly going beyond "trying to bargain with the truth of our situation; trying to preserve the illusion of power and affluence by making another, "greener" version"

[emordnilap]

Where's the quote from, Roger?

As to 'top 5', that's a toughie; I thought there were lots of decent ideas in the book. It's the old, old problem though - most of the ideas focus on the small, the local, the 'alternative', often associated with leftie greenie hippie types and so are off-putting to your average mother-in-law, suit or hotel skivvy.

But, to have a go (gah! useful and practical? I won't quite manage that, there are some very good philosophical chapters), the chapter (and appendix) on nutritional resilience is sensible and focused and I got a lot from that; the one on cap and share; the sailing craft section (not that everyone can take to boats; I just think it shows what can be done by thinking outside the box and being practical); Nate Hagen's contribution on psychology and, fifthly, the examination of Pittsburgh's property (site valuation tax).

Four out of five useful/practical. It's a readable book though, with lots of possibilities hidden in the detail and I thought very little was superfluous.

One friend called the book 'a bit frightening' because, I think, of its immense scope. That's because we have immense problems. Interesting request, though Roger. There are lots of books out there describing and theorising about those problems but very few suggesting doable responses.

[kenneal - lagger]

.......driven by thinkers over this side of the Irish sea.

I think that is driven by the cheaper cost of living rather than anything else. Richard Douthwaite is English, and from his name, his family is from Yorkshire or environs originally I would think.

I'm only a third the way through the book at the moment but the main useful thing that I take from it so far is the Equity Partnerships. I googled equity partnerships and got a website for gays and lesbians in Yorkshire! Not what I was expecting.

[mobbsey]

I'm not that clever. No, I meant its compilation was driven by thinkers over this side of the Irish sea.

D'ya mean loik dis lhittle lheprecaun?

[emordnilap]

I think that is driven by the cheaper cost of living rather than anything else.

¿? Don't understand.

[Potemkin Villager]

But, to have a go (gah! useful and practical? I won't quite manage that, there are some very good philosophical chapters)

It's a readable book though, with lots of possibilities hidden in the detail

There are lots of books out there describing and theorising about those problems but very few suggesting doable responses.

The quotation was from Mobbsey a few posts back.

Yes this sort of thing does get tricky when you think about it and to some extent depends on what you believe you should be entitled to! Many responses are of the nature of just responding to the particular question“How do we maintain what we have got as economic conditions worsen and fuel prices go up?” to which might be added "and maintain our relative privilege".

So my assertion is that a lot of this sort of stuff, that seems quite radical, turns out to be positively reactionary and essentially a dressed up version of some scheme to primarily benefit the proposer when you strip it down.

This is scarcely thinking outside the box.

[RenewableCandy]

I'm not that clever. No, I meant its compilation was driven by thinkers over this side of the Irish sea.

D'ya mean loik dis lhittle lheprecaun?

Hey I bett he U-value of those bricks is brilliant!

I like the jumper and'all!

[biffvernon]

I meant its compilation was driven by thinkers over this side of the Irish sea.

Feasta indeed.

Which reminds me that over ten years ago the 2001 Feasta Annual Lecture: The Lean Economy: a Vision of Civility for a World in Trouble, was given by the late Dr. David Fleming

You can read it here: http://www.feasta.org/documents/review2/fleming.htm

The heading says:

The depletion of oil and gas, the degradation of the environment and the decline of social capital all threaten to collapse the market economy. Fleming believes that such a collapse cannot be averted and that public policy should concentrate on laying the foundations for the transformed political economy that could rise from the ashes. In his lecture he explored the social and cultural qualities that will be indispensable for surviving the crash and moving on to recovery, renewal and stability.

And this lecture, given long before PowerSwitch started and most of us had heard of peak oil, is still as relevant to the current situation as ever. Parts of it are included in David Flemng's book Lean Logic.

[SleeperService]

Like the comment in the text about the euros being a good insulator

Except against economic calamity I suppose

[kenneal - lagger]

Like the comment in the text about the euros being a good insulator

Except against economic calamity I suppose

You could have added "and reality" as well.

[kenneal - lagger]

I think that is driven by the cheaper cost of living rather than anything else.

¿? Don't understand.

I was just thinking that Richard Douthwaite might be on your side of the Irish Sea for the same economic reasons that some people on this forum are there.

[emordnilap]

I think that is driven by the cheaper cost of living rather than anything else.

¿? Don't understand.

I was just thinking that Richard Douthwaite might be on your side of the Irish Sea for the same economic reasons that some people on this forum are there.

The cost of living generally is higher here than in England. It becomes a real problem when stuff you want is simply not available here but, in the main, we personally manage simply by having lower expectations. We're low earners but don't actually need much money.

There are specific problems here affecting the wider population: health care here (private is expensive but almost vital) is a big issue, set to be an even bigger issue as we continue to provide welfare for rich gamblers.

Thousands of rural dwellers depend on oil heating. Those same rural dwellers tend to have several vehicles, whether in jobs or not.

Having said that, prices are noticeably but randomly starting to come down.

[emordnilap]

So my assertion is that a lot of this sort of stuff, that seems quite radical, turns out to be positively reactionary and essentially a dressed up version of some scheme to primarily benefit the proposer when you strip it down.

Sometimes, yes. There is wheat in amongst the chaff, though - hence my reference to 'nutritional resilience'. To me, that was one of the most positive contributions, giving practical advice. Such articles get swamped by the economically-focussed chapters (though producing nutritionally complete food makes economic sense).

This is scarcely thinking outside the box.

I don't think you can be so dismissive of it, Roger. No book - including Fleeing Vesuvius - is going to solve that much but it's part of the type of thinking that's required. I highly recommend it; such books should be bought two at a time, giving the spare copy to someone 'influential'.