Bugging out of London

[RenewableCandy]

I bet the first one to fall would be Vauxhall.

A cheese sanwich for Sir !

[featherstick]

I claim this train station for the Socialist Workers Council of Great Britain

Actually, that's exactly what happened in the Russian Revolution. The Bolsheviks seized 3 or 4 railway nodes and 3 or 4 tlegraph exchanges, and game over. The rest was mopping up (for the next 5 or 6 years or so).

[JohnB]

Not working in London is the obvious solution .

[BitSlice10101]

Hi all, Long time lurker here

Interesting topic for those who live or work in London, I happen live and work in London.

London is the last place anyone would want to be, in the event of a crisis. The best thing to do would be to get out ASAP, while you still can.
Have a basic 'EDC' Every Day Carry Kit on you and a bugout bag at work.



The one thing that sticks out in my mind was during my time in the Territorial Army we were 'trained' in the event of a national emergency within the greater London area. During a possible unforeseen incident, Pandemic ,NBC Attack, Terrorism or Civil Unrest, the T.A Unit which I was with (based in Portsmouth) main priority was to cordon off a given section of the M25. There are T.A and regular army units in each UK county surrounding and inside London to effectively create an artificial barrier around London’s M25 route. Nothing would be allowed in or out, in theory. Effectively the population could then be supressed by our own military.

T.A. Groups have a lot of stores of armouries, munitions including heavy weapons and vehicles at various locations INSIDE and around London.


In the event of Martial Law I expect the Regular Army & T.A Groups with heavy and light armoured support groups including the Army Air Corps, RAF, Navy with support of the police and their own territorial support groups with Private contractors (Mercs) to enforce draconian laws to keep order. Unlike Iraq the general population will not have access to firearms or explosives or even the will or training to fight our own government forces.

I am not sure if there has been much discussion on the countries action plan or ability to declare martial law and what our armed forces and police capabilities and how it will change all our lives inside or out of London.

All members of the armed forces abroad will also probably be recalled if the situation called for it by c130. Many ex-service personnel will also be reporting to their nearest T.A center if called upon and happy to serve for the extra food warmth and protection.

If an oil crisis scenario occurs then I would expect full martial law within a week, curfews, rationing, confiscation of goods and Vehicles, eventual full conscription and an inevitable war for oil to follow.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t agree with it and hate the thought of this but history, planning, assets and Political stupidity exist in at least an attempt of this. Military oppression is common in other parts of the world and is seen as the only solution by desperate governments.

Its not the post peak utopian world you and I are hoping for but hey…..It may never happen right ;
Any thoughts?

[biffvernon]

Interesting post, BitSlice10101. Could you tell us what the military action you describe might be attempting to achieve?

[DominicJ]

T.A. Groups have a lot of stores of armouries, munitions including heavy weapons and vehicles at various locations INSIDE and around London.

See, I remember the mad scramble to try and buy ammunition in the run up to the first gulf war, some poor bugger(s) had to ring round every metalogy factory in the country to see if they could do the hardening process.
Men still crossed the border with 5 rounds.

Maybe the situation has improved since then.....

[RenewableCandy]

Good point by Biff: other than the need to quarantine an infection, what exctly would be the point of cordonning off London?

[energy-village]

Interesting stuff, BitSlice. I suppose you just do what you're told in the TA - no questions asked. However, I would also like to know what the point of cordonning off London would be. Most of the rich 1% live there as well as the hoi-poloi.

Would these same arrangements exist for our other major cities? I must dig out my old copy of 'Escape from New York'.

[featherstick]

Good point by Biff: other than the need to quarantine an infection, what exctly would be the point of cordonning off London?

Infection aside: it's an under-resourced metropolitan area of 10 million people. Impossible to police, impossible to supply rations without being raided, and you don't want 10 million people swarming out into the surrounding countryside. Cordon it off for a week or two, let a "natural equilibrium" establish itself, and then go back in when you've got the advantage of firepower to take key resources back.

[Harry Morgan]

An interesting thread:

I'm not sure that Bitslice10101's unit's role was to cordon off London, rather it was probably to allow use by the Authorities of the M25 as an Essential Service Route (ESR) in the event of a national emergency, to allow free movement for official vehicles unhindered by refugees.

See for instance Duncan Campbell's now very dated book "War Plan UK", 1982 Burnett Books.

Fig 11 (p.195) shows the ESRs in London at the time which included the M25 (as well as the 2 other concentric inner lines of A roads as well as for example all main roads leading out of London including the A3, A30, M4, M1, A1, A10, A11 etc., so getting out of London using any of these routes would be a no-no.) These routes would be guarded by the police backed up as necessary by the armed forces in the event of martial law (see chapter 6 of the book).

Probably the key is to keep informed in a period of possible high tension. Given the discussions about possibly shutting down the mobile telephone network in the event of widespread rioting, one might be advised to keep a small radio to hand & to make a decision to leave as early as you can.
I would imagine that one might have to be prepared for a long walk. Having a bike or a scooter would undoubtedly be helpful at times but I seem to remember seeing film of a scooter rider being singled out for attack as he threaded his way through groups of people during the recent riots, and he appeared very vulnerable. Given the ESRs will be unavaialble, other routes will probably be packed with people & how easy it would be to ride a bike through these, I'm not sure. Think of photographs of columns of refugees in France 1940 & imagine cycling through them. I think you'd end up wheeling your bike.

Given the difficulty of storing a scooter/ bike safely in London for what is going to be a low probability but high impact contingency, it would seem best to me have thought through a plan of what you propose to do; to have a pre-planned route & preferably pre-travelled route avoiding the ESRs; to have access to a detailed map of your route; to have decent footwear & access to water & high energy bars (such as Kendal mint cake); to have a small torch, small swiss army knife etc. I would not be keen travelling at night in the city as those on the streets are likely to be prepared & looking for trouble. Given the clear failure of the police to be able to restore order in London until they had overwhelming force, I suspect that there will be be more vigilante groups appearing much faster if there is a next time, to defend their neighbourhoods.

I'm not sure what proportion of London's population would be heading out. I suspect most people will just want to get home, wherever that is.

[biffvernon]

The thought of preventing cabinet ministers from escaping beyond the M25 is attractive but Harry's suggestion about securing primary routes so that deliveries of food and fuel can be assured sounds a more plausible use of the army.

I don't think we can learn much from the behaviour of refugees in 1940s Europe. There are great differences such as the fact that there are more bicycles than people now.

[jonny2mad]

Regarding the rich that lived in London would it be possible to try to keep control of the posher areas while you have this cordon .

The real 1% most likely have houses in London and elsewhere and would most likely still be able to leave .

What happened in the Yugoslav war was the different ethnic militia which often times started with criminal gangs, went around raiding Yugoslav army armories, often with inside help from their co religionists either in the army or civilians working on site .

Thats how the factions got armed .

And would the UK in a emergency have enough fuel and food for London, if you don't have enough to go round which part of the UK would you let die, the more rural areas that produce the food or the city which no longer has a financial services market and thats possibly rebelling.

They might hang on to part of the city and let the rest collapse, limit the amount of aid you bring in, stop people leaving, let people turn on themselves .

If you think this is impossible look up katrina which a lot of people think may have been a dry run to see what happens in a collapse in major city, its a damn shame megadooms diary doesn't seem to be online anymore he was a paramedic in katrina, mighty interesting reading

[emordnilap]

Whatever, welcome BitSlice10101 and Harry Morgan.

[featherstick]

Whatever, welcome BitSlice10101 and Harry Morgan.

Seconded. Great posts, too.

[SleeperService]

A cordon could be permeable. Some are allowed through other aren't.

In view of my emerging beliefs about PO and collapse in general I bugged out when I was twelve, may have been a bit early but better safe than sorry

The second paragraph may be stretching the truth a little