We're looking to put in a PV system in our house as a back-up. I'm not that concerned at this stage about a full multi-kW system to take advantage of the feed-in tarrifs. More a small back-up system that could provide lighting and maybe run the central heating pump in the event of a power cut. I don't want to spend more than a few hundred quid or, tops, £1-2k.
The question is, can I simply connect the output of my inverter into the main electricity circuit of the house by, say, plugging it into a spare 13A socket? I seem to recall a wind-energy company called Windsave that was around a couple of years ago. Their system did just that.
If I can do this, would I need a pure sine inverter, or would any old one do? Do I need any fancy isolating circuitry?
Any help appreciated
Tarrel
Basic Renewable Electricity Question
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vtsnowedin
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- Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont
I'm about as far from a UK qualified licensed electrician as you can get so add salt. I suspect that you need a switch that disconnects the mains power at the same time as you switch on the PV or plug it in to keep from possibly back feeding the local distribution lines during a power cut and shocking the linemen that are trying to restore the mains power. This makes them very irritable to say the least.Tarrel wrote:We're looking to put in a PV system in our house as a back-up. I'm not that concerned at this stage about a full multi-kW system to take advantage of the feed-in tarrifs. More a small back-up system that could provide lighting and maybe run the central heating pump in the event of a power cut. I don't want to spend more than a few hundred quid or, tops, £1-2k.
The question is, can I simply connect the output of my inverter into the main electricity circuit of the house by, say, plugging it into a spare 13A socket? I seem to recall a wind-energy company called Windsave that was around a couple of years ago. Their system did just that.
If I can do this, would I need a pure sine inverter, or would any old one do? Do I need any fancy isolating circuitry?
Any help appreciated
Tarrel
I believe its possible, but its also rather dangerous, to the poor bugger fixing your electricity supply, as well as yourself.
I think a fairly basic inverter can be set up to ask your solar system for power first, and then ask your mains supply for power if it needs to, but its not really an efficient set up.
Adam2 has a few posts on this subject, possibly findable by searching for 12v lighting.
I think a fairly basic inverter can be set up to ask your solar system for power first, and then ask your mains supply for power if it needs to, but its not really an efficient set up.
Adam2 has a few posts on this subject, possibly findable by searching for 12v lighting.
I'm a realist, not a hippie
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adam2
- Site Admin
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- Location: North Somerset, twinned with Atlantis
There are two main types of inverter, those intended for backfeeding into the grid, and those intended to provide a backup supply from batteries in the event of grid failure.
In the case of grid tie inverters that are intended to feed wind or PV power back into the grid, then yes many types CAN be simply plugged into any standard socket outlet.
These inverters sense the presence of the grid and cease operation very quickly in case of grid failure.
Plugging into a standard socket means you wont get any of the generous payments offered for grid tied renewables, but it should work and be safe.
In the case of inverters that are intended for backup power in case of grid failure (or for full time power in premises without a grid connection)
Then it is very dangerous, foolhardy and almost certainly illegal to connect one to the fixed wiring by means of a plug.
Hazards include if the plug is removed, then a lethal voltage is present on the exposed plug pins and could kill anyone touching them
Mains voltage could be fed back into in the suppliers network and kill someone working on it.
The best way to proceed is to install a circuit connected ONLY to the standby inverter with no connection whatsoever to the mains.
Provide socket outlets on this circuit into which appliances can be plugged when needed. This is cheap and simple.
For a larger installation, a suitable changeover switch can be installed that manually or automaticly switches over the entire house supply, or parts thereof, between grid power and inverter power.
Unless you have very considerable experience in such matters, this should be done by an approved electrician.
It is is a more costly solution and unlikely to be justified for a small inverter.
You will need a battery bank sufficient to the supply the inverter for the longest power cut against which you wish to protect.
3 hours might be a minimum, and 10 hours better if money permits.
The battery bank may be charged by grid power when present, or by a wind turbine or from PV modules.
If your concern is only about short term or rota cuts, then charging from the grid is far cheaper.
If however you fear long term or even permanent grid failure, then charging from renewables is required.
Standby lighting may be better supplied at battery voltage.
For central heating or other mains voltage loads you will need an inverter, sine wave would be best especialy for motors such as heating pumps or fridges.
In the case of grid tie inverters that are intended to feed wind or PV power back into the grid, then yes many types CAN be simply plugged into any standard socket outlet.
These inverters sense the presence of the grid and cease operation very quickly in case of grid failure.
Plugging into a standard socket means you wont get any of the generous payments offered for grid tied renewables, but it should work and be safe.
In the case of inverters that are intended for backup power in case of grid failure (or for full time power in premises without a grid connection)
Then it is very dangerous, foolhardy and almost certainly illegal to connect one to the fixed wiring by means of a plug.
Hazards include if the plug is removed, then a lethal voltage is present on the exposed plug pins and could kill anyone touching them
Mains voltage could be fed back into in the suppliers network and kill someone working on it.
The best way to proceed is to install a circuit connected ONLY to the standby inverter with no connection whatsoever to the mains.
Provide socket outlets on this circuit into which appliances can be plugged when needed. This is cheap and simple.
For a larger installation, a suitable changeover switch can be installed that manually or automaticly switches over the entire house supply, or parts thereof, between grid power and inverter power.
Unless you have very considerable experience in such matters, this should be done by an approved electrician.
It is is a more costly solution and unlikely to be justified for a small inverter.
You will need a battery bank sufficient to the supply the inverter for the longest power cut against which you wish to protect.
3 hours might be a minimum, and 10 hours better if money permits.
The battery bank may be charged by grid power when present, or by a wind turbine or from PV modules.
If your concern is only about short term or rota cuts, then charging from the grid is far cheaper.
If however you fear long term or even permanent grid failure, then charging from renewables is required.
Standby lighting may be better supplied at battery voltage.
For central heating or other mains voltage loads you will need an inverter, sine wave would be best especialy for motors such as heating pumps or fridges.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
First point -- doing anything involving the installation of a new electrical main/power source in a standard "dwelling" is unlawful unless you get Building Regulations consent. Caravans, garden sheds (if not already connected to the mains) and boats are exempt.
So, first thing you need to do is decide which digit(s) you will extend towards the authorities
In our house we've 60W of PV. That's connected to 200Ah of deep cycle batteries via a charge controller of my own design constructed from electrical scrap and automotive parts. I originally set up this system when I was developing small self-build PV systems for projects in Africa/the Caribbean around '03/'04, but now I use it to run my file server and work laptops.
In the event of a power cut I've two inverters, one square wave and one since wave. Square wave use a lot less power than since wave inverters, and are ideal for running lights -- although in the event of a power cut I've got two 12V fluorescent lights because it's far more efficient to run them directly than to run conventional mains lighting through an inverter. I also have a 12V cell battery charger so that I can continue to charge NiMH batteries for torches, radios, etc. -- which again is more efficient than trying to charge small cell batteries with a standard mains charger via an inverter.
The sine wave inverter is there to run the central heating boiler. A couple of years ago our electrics blew just before Xmas (slug in fuse box followed by electrical fire!
), and we couldn't (affordably!) get it fixed until the New Year. What I did was: Run a cable from the inverter to the fused wall switch of the central heating boiler; disconnected the mains wires from the box; then connected up the cable from the inverter to power the boiler.
We didn't use the boiler for space heating -- as the sine wave inverter burns a lot of juice we only turned in on in the evening when we needed to run the hot water for the shower. Instead we used the wood burner to heat the house as that's easier than trying to run the central heating without electricity. Even if we lost the gas supply, our wood burner can be used to heat water and cook -- and we always keep a stock of wood ready for use during the Winter months).
If you want to develop your own system then you'll need to undertake some calculations to work out how much power you want to use. Given the costs involved you'd be far better off using wind-up lanterns and candles to provide light for most of the time. Most wind-up lanterns has a DC jack plug to charge them, and with a voltage regulator it's more efficient to charge them directly than try and run lights and cable around the house. As noted above, if you need to provide some good quality light then running low voltage DC lighting is far more efficient than using mains lighting and an inverter.
If you want to run a gas boiler then you'll need to measure it's load and calculate how much storage capacity you need to run it for the time required. That's problematic because you must use a full sine wave inverter, and consume a lot more juice as a result, because most modern central heating boiler controls/pumps will fail to work/might be damaged if you tried to run them for any length of time using a square wave inverter.
If you're looking at emergency situations then in the UK such problems usually arise in the Winter -- which is obviously not so good from the point of view of using PV. If you want a reliable power supply in Winter you'll have to get a small generator; otherwise you'll need an alternate Winter-synchronous supply such as pico-hydro, or human-powered dynamo. As noted above, we only used the gas boiler to heat water -- and that's because it was simpler to do that than try and heat large quantities of water on our relatively small 4.5kW wood burner (why 4.5kW -- again, it's because anything greater than 5kW technically needs to have its flue approved for Building Regs). That meant we only needed to power the inverter for an hour or less, which consumed far less juice than trying to replicate the 24/7 supply from the mains.
So, initiated into the unlawful world of self-help electricity, I hope that's a help. I keep meaning to write-up the notes I developed for the workshop on renewable power systems I developed about 10 years ago -- unfortunately there's never any time to do so and no one will pay me to do it. However, I did a broad-brush summary for the Free Range Network's Great Outdoors Project -- http://www.fraw.org.uk/publications/o-s ... ndex.shtml
So, first thing you need to do is decide which digit(s) you will extend towards the authorities
In our house we've 60W of PV. That's connected to 200Ah of deep cycle batteries via a charge controller of my own design constructed from electrical scrap and automotive parts. I originally set up this system when I was developing small self-build PV systems for projects in Africa/the Caribbean around '03/'04, but now I use it to run my file server and work laptops.
In the event of a power cut I've two inverters, one square wave and one since wave. Square wave use a lot less power than since wave inverters, and are ideal for running lights -- although in the event of a power cut I've got two 12V fluorescent lights because it's far more efficient to run them directly than to run conventional mains lighting through an inverter. I also have a 12V cell battery charger so that I can continue to charge NiMH batteries for torches, radios, etc. -- which again is more efficient than trying to charge small cell batteries with a standard mains charger via an inverter.
The sine wave inverter is there to run the central heating boiler. A couple of years ago our electrics blew just before Xmas (slug in fuse box followed by electrical fire!
), and we couldn't (affordably!) get it fixed until the New Year. What I did was: Run a cable from the inverter to the fused wall switch of the central heating boiler; disconnected the mains wires from the box; then connected up the cable from the inverter to power the boiler.We didn't use the boiler for space heating -- as the sine wave inverter burns a lot of juice we only turned in on in the evening when we needed to run the hot water for the shower. Instead we used the wood burner to heat the house as that's easier than trying to run the central heating without electricity. Even if we lost the gas supply, our wood burner can be used to heat water and cook -- and we always keep a stock of wood ready for use during the Winter months).
If you want to develop your own system then you'll need to undertake some calculations to work out how much power you want to use. Given the costs involved you'd be far better off using wind-up lanterns and candles to provide light for most of the time. Most wind-up lanterns has a DC jack plug to charge them, and with a voltage regulator it's more efficient to charge them directly than try and run lights and cable around the house. As noted above, if you need to provide some good quality light then running low voltage DC lighting is far more efficient than using mains lighting and an inverter.
If you want to run a gas boiler then you'll need to measure it's load and calculate how much storage capacity you need to run it for the time required. That's problematic because you must use a full sine wave inverter, and consume a lot more juice as a result, because most modern central heating boiler controls/pumps will fail to work/might be damaged if you tried to run them for any length of time using a square wave inverter.
If you're looking at emergency situations then in the UK such problems usually arise in the Winter -- which is obviously not so good from the point of view of using PV. If you want a reliable power supply in Winter you'll have to get a small generator; otherwise you'll need an alternate Winter-synchronous supply such as pico-hydro, or human-powered dynamo. As noted above, we only used the gas boiler to heat water -- and that's because it was simpler to do that than try and heat large quantities of water on our relatively small 4.5kW wood burner (why 4.5kW -- again, it's because anything greater than 5kW technically needs to have its flue approved for Building Regs). That meant we only needed to power the inverter for an hour or less, which consumed far less juice than trying to replicate the 24/7 supply from the mains.
So, initiated into the unlawful world of self-help electricity, I hope that's a help. I keep meaning to write-up the notes I developed for the workshop on renewable power systems I developed about 10 years ago -- unfortunately there's never any time to do so and no one will pay me to do it. However, I did a broad-brush summary for the Free Range Network's Great Outdoors Project -- http://www.fraw.org.uk/publications/o-s ... ndex.shtml
Wow! What a rich seam of expertise I've tapped into here. Thanks folks! 
Really useful info, esp. the comment about a sine wave inverter being needed for the CH pump and controls. To be honest, it was with powering the CH pump in mind, that I asked the original question. I'd already thought that separate low-voltage lighting circuits would be the answer. However, the idea of plugging the inverter straight into the house's wiring, if it had been viable, would have given me a very convenient way of powering the CH pump, and if I could have done this, then why not power the house lights into the bargain. OK. Back to the drawing board.
FWIW, I'm asking these questions with a forthcoming heating system in mind. Our current setup, inherited when we bought the house, is an externally located, oil-fired combi-boiler feeding a pressurised radiator system and providing mains-fed domestic hot water. The house is a 200 year old listed cottage in the Scottish Highlands, not on the mains gas supply.
I don't like this system because:
- It runs on oil, which is becoming increasingly expensive
- It runs on oil, which is unsustainable
- It runs on oil, for which we have already experienced re-supply problems over the last two cold winters
- It makes us completely reliant on mains water. There is no passive store of water, hot or cold.
- We have an extensive area of woodland, providing us with virtually limitless free wood, which we are not exploiting
- It is dependent on electricity to work (I know this applies to most systems)
- Oh, did I mention..it runs on oil.
At the moment we share our time between this property and one in the South-East, letting it to short-term tenants when we are away. In this respect, the system works fine as it is foolproof and reliable.
During the first half of 2012 we'll be moving up permanently and I then have in mind changing the system. We'll both be around the house much more; my wife will be contributing to an internet-based consultancy from home, and I'll be in and out of the woodland, and doing some commercial training course origination from home. Thoughts so far therefore, are for:
A wood-fired Rayburn or similar plus solar water-heating panels both feeding into a thermal heat store, backed up by an electric immersion heater, with the "central heating" side of the existing boiler also feeding the heat store as back-up or for frost-safety if we are away in the winter.
The heat-store would supply central heating to the radiators plus domestic hot water, although, from what I've read, I can imagine the radiant heat from the Rayburn would do quite a lot of the space-heating (the kitchen is a large, open plan area with the stairs to the upper floor going up from it.)
Cooking would be supplemented by a combination microwave and a couple of free-standing electric hot-plates for those (rare) hot summer days.
Having had the house for a couple of years, we find that we tend to put the heating on, even during the summer. It's made of stone and just seems to be one of those houses that responds well to being heated all the time. Would probably have had a Range in it when it was new.
I haven't consulted with a plumber in detail on these proposals yet. The only aspect I suspect may not be possible would be using the existing boiler. This isn't critical, but it would be a shame to waste it, as it is already there and installed.
I'd love to hear any comments, either supporting or rubbishing this idea. Also keen to hear about experiences of "real world" living with a solid fuel Rayburn, beyond the misty-eyed nostalgia presented in the brochures!
Regards
Tarrel
Really useful info, esp. the comment about a sine wave inverter being needed for the CH pump and controls. To be honest, it was with powering the CH pump in mind, that I asked the original question. I'd already thought that separate low-voltage lighting circuits would be the answer. However, the idea of plugging the inverter straight into the house's wiring, if it had been viable, would have given me a very convenient way of powering the CH pump, and if I could have done this, then why not power the house lights into the bargain. OK. Back to the drawing board.
FWIW, I'm asking these questions with a forthcoming heating system in mind. Our current setup, inherited when we bought the house, is an externally located, oil-fired combi-boiler feeding a pressurised radiator system and providing mains-fed domestic hot water. The house is a 200 year old listed cottage in the Scottish Highlands, not on the mains gas supply.
I don't like this system because:
- It runs on oil, which is becoming increasingly expensive
- It runs on oil, which is unsustainable
- It runs on oil, for which we have already experienced re-supply problems over the last two cold winters
- It makes us completely reliant on mains water. There is no passive store of water, hot or cold.
- We have an extensive area of woodland, providing us with virtually limitless free wood, which we are not exploiting
- It is dependent on electricity to work (I know this applies to most systems)
- Oh, did I mention..it runs on oil.
At the moment we share our time between this property and one in the South-East, letting it to short-term tenants when we are away. In this respect, the system works fine as it is foolproof and reliable.
During the first half of 2012 we'll be moving up permanently and I then have in mind changing the system. We'll both be around the house much more; my wife will be contributing to an internet-based consultancy from home, and I'll be in and out of the woodland, and doing some commercial training course origination from home. Thoughts so far therefore, are for:
A wood-fired Rayburn or similar plus solar water-heating panels both feeding into a thermal heat store, backed up by an electric immersion heater, with the "central heating" side of the existing boiler also feeding the heat store as back-up or for frost-safety if we are away in the winter.
The heat-store would supply central heating to the radiators plus domestic hot water, although, from what I've read, I can imagine the radiant heat from the Rayburn would do quite a lot of the space-heating (the kitchen is a large, open plan area with the stairs to the upper floor going up from it.)
Cooking would be supplemented by a combination microwave and a couple of free-standing electric hot-plates for those (rare) hot summer days.
Having had the house for a couple of years, we find that we tend to put the heating on, even during the summer. It's made of stone and just seems to be one of those houses that responds well to being heated all the time. Would probably have had a Range in it when it was new.
I haven't consulted with a plumber in detail on these proposals yet. The only aspect I suspect may not be possible would be using the existing boiler. This isn't critical, but it would be a shame to waste it, as it is already there and installed.
I'd love to hear any comments, either supporting or rubbishing this idea. Also keen to hear about experiences of "real world" living with a solid fuel Rayburn, beyond the misty-eyed nostalgia presented in the brochures!
Regards
Tarrel
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adam2
- Site Admin
- Posts: 10892
- Joined: 02 Jul 2007, 17:49
- Location: North Somerset, twinned with Atlantis
If the oil burning heating is in good working order it might be worth retaining it.
Oil can at least be stored against shortages unlike electricity.
In view of the rising price of oil it would be well to minimise use by insulation and by woodburning.
Removing it might not be the best choice.
It could even be worth installing a new oil boiler of the tradditional type , NOT combi. This could be set up to heat a thermal store that provides domestic hot water and heating.
The thermal store being normally wood heated in the winter and solar heated in the summer.
Wood burning takes a lot of time and effort, though it is cheap if you have your own wood. It would be advisable to have an alternative in case of illness etc.
A store of cold water is vital, and a store of hot is desireable.
If you do remove the oil heating, then consider retaining the oil tank and useing it to store diesel fuel for a generator and/or vehicles.
Oil can at least be stored against shortages unlike electricity.
In view of the rising price of oil it would be well to minimise use by insulation and by woodburning.
Removing it might not be the best choice.
It could even be worth installing a new oil boiler of the tradditional type , NOT combi. This could be set up to heat a thermal store that provides domestic hot water and heating.
The thermal store being normally wood heated in the winter and solar heated in the summer.
Wood burning takes a lot of time and effort, though it is cheap if you have your own wood. It would be advisable to have an alternative in case of illness etc.
A store of cold water is vital, and a store of hot is desireable.
If you do remove the oil heating, then consider retaining the oil tank and useing it to store diesel fuel for a generator and/or vehicles.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
"If the oil burning heating is in good working order it might be worth retaining it.
Oil can at least be stored against shortages unlike electricity.
In view of the rising price of oil it would be well to minimise use by insulation and by woodburning.
Removing it might not be the best choice. "
I agree. There is scope for improving the insulation through draughtproofing the sash windows and adding to the loft. Walls are already drylined and done.
"It could even be worth installing a new oil boiler of the tradditional type , NOT combi. This could be set up to heat a thermal store that provides domestic hot water and heating.
The thermal store being normally wood heated in the winter and solar heated in the summer. "
I have considered this. Goes against the grain somewhat to replace a perfectly serviceable boiler with a new one that we will consciously avoid using. Might do it as a last resort though.
"Wood burning takes a lot of time and effort, though it is cheap if you have your own wood. It would be advisable to have an alternative in case of illness etc. "
This is what my wife keeps (wisely) warning me about!
"If you do remove the oil heating, then consider retaining the oil tank and useing it to store diesel fuel for a generator and/or vehicles."
Great idea. Hadn't thought of that.
I've emailed Grant (the boiler manufacturer) to ask them about the idea of using the boiler. I think the sticking point maybe that the thermal; store would have to be vented, due to the presence of the (uncontrolled) Rayburn, whereas the boiler is designed to supply a pressurised system.
Oil can at least be stored against shortages unlike electricity.
In view of the rising price of oil it would be well to minimise use by insulation and by woodburning.
Removing it might not be the best choice. "
I agree. There is scope for improving the insulation through draughtproofing the sash windows and adding to the loft. Walls are already drylined and done.
"It could even be worth installing a new oil boiler of the tradditional type , NOT combi. This could be set up to heat a thermal store that provides domestic hot water and heating.
The thermal store being normally wood heated in the winter and solar heated in the summer. "
I have considered this. Goes against the grain somewhat to replace a perfectly serviceable boiler with a new one that we will consciously avoid using. Might do it as a last resort though.
"Wood burning takes a lot of time and effort, though it is cheap if you have your own wood. It would be advisable to have an alternative in case of illness etc. "
This is what my wife keeps (wisely) warning me about!
"If you do remove the oil heating, then consider retaining the oil tank and useing it to store diesel fuel for a generator and/or vehicles."
Great idea. Hadn't thought of that.
I've emailed Grant (the boiler manufacturer) to ask them about the idea of using the boiler. I think the sticking point maybe that the thermal; store would have to be vented, due to the presence of the (uncontrolled) Rayburn, whereas the boiler is designed to supply a pressurised system.
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eatyourveg
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: 15 Jul 2007, 17:02
- Location: uk
Re your central heating. No.1 fan of Rayburns speaking.
We bought a reconditioned Rayburn Royal with back boiler for £1200. It runs 6 radiators and does the hot water. There are no pumps in the system, it is completely independent of electricity, so what the mains are up to isn't something to worry about. You do need a supply of wood, which you have. Season it well, chuck it in the Rayburn. Which is of course also an oven.
So, you get to cook, stay warm and can have a bath whether power is on or off.
We do have a back up cooker which runs on propane, which is very cost effective.
We bought a reconditioned Rayburn Royal with back boiler for £1200. It runs 6 radiators and does the hot water. There are no pumps in the system, it is completely independent of electricity, so what the mains are up to isn't something to worry about. You do need a supply of wood, which you have. Season it well, chuck it in the Rayburn. Which is of course also an oven.
So, you get to cook, stay warm and can have a bath whether power is on or off.
We do have a back up cooker which runs on propane, which is very cost effective.
"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools". Douglas Bader.
@eatyourveg;
OK No. 1 Rayburn Fan, hope you know what you've let yourself in for
I have a few 
:
Do you keep it running 24 hrs?
How often do you have to stoke it? (I appreciate this may be dependent on type of wood, wind, etc.)
On average, how much wood do you get through a day (or week, etc)?
Roughly how long does it take from lighting through to the rads warming up?
Regarding cooking, how steep is the learning curve for using the oven and hotplate? Any top-tips in this regard?
How often does it need cleaning out?
Do you know if it will run OK on (well seasoned) softwood? (We have lots of noble fir and scots pine)
And, most importantly, where did you find one for 1200 quid?!
I appreciate I'm dumping on you a bit here, but would really value some first hand opinion. As you can imagine, it's quite a big commitment and change, and important that we get it right.
Regarding the "electricity-free" aspect, we are quite keen to combine it with some other form of back-up heating, which will probably mean using a thermal store. I'm sure this will involve a pump somewhere along the way. What you describe sounds quite compelling though.
Thanks for the response.
Regards
Tarrel
OK No. 1 Rayburn Fan, hope you know what you've let yourself in for
I have a few :Do you keep it running 24 hrs?
How often do you have to stoke it? (I appreciate this may be dependent on type of wood, wind, etc.)
On average, how much wood do you get through a day (or week, etc)?
Roughly how long does it take from lighting through to the rads warming up?
Regarding cooking, how steep is the learning curve for using the oven and hotplate? Any top-tips in this regard?
How often does it need cleaning out?
Do you know if it will run OK on (well seasoned) softwood? (We have lots of noble fir and scots pine)
And, most importantly, where did you find one for 1200 quid?!
I appreciate I'm dumping on you a bit here, but would really value some first hand opinion. As you can imagine, it's quite a big commitment and change, and important that we get it right.
Regarding the "electricity-free" aspect, we are quite keen to combine it with some other form of back-up heating, which will probably mean using a thermal store. I'm sure this will involve a pump somewhere along the way. What you describe sounds quite compelling though.
Thanks for the response.
Regards
Tarrel
If you've a ready supply of firewood, which will do space heating and hot water, then practically you could look at something like a Stirling engine to provide a power feed from the wood-fired heat source -- although at the moment they're expensive because they're not "standard" consumer items.
In Scotland I'd have thought you're pretty well set up for wind. If you put the apparatus in the garden that shouldn't affect the listed status of the building.
In Scotland I'd have thought you're pretty well set up for wind. If you put the apparatus in the garden that shouldn't affect the listed status of the building.
Yep, heard of those. Or maybe one of those thermo-electric generators I've seen discussed elsewhere on this forum.
With regard to wind, surprisingly, the wind-speed in our neck of the woods isn't that high, although it can blow a bit of a hooley out on the peninsula where our woodland is. On a specific local level, the cottage is surrounded by trees and hunkered down below a natural escarpment. Not great for wind-power, but quite reassuring on a stormy night. I'm guessing it will also add to the general warmth of the place (although it still gets pretty ***ing cold in the middle of winter!)
With regard to wind, surprisingly, the wind-speed in our neck of the woods isn't that high, although it can blow a bit of a hooley out on the peninsula where our woodland is. On a specific local level, the cottage is surrounded by trees and hunkered down below a natural escarpment. Not great for wind-power, but quite reassuring on a stormy night. I'm guessing it will also add to the general warmth of the place (although it still gets pretty ***ing cold in the middle of winter!)
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eatyourveg
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: 15 Jul 2007, 17:02
- Location: uk
Tarrel,
Your Rayburn questions answered in another thread:
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... 598#196598
EYV
Your Rayburn questions answered in another thread:
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... 598#196598
EYV
"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools". Douglas Bader.