End of the Euro

[Ludwig]

UE
Contrary to popular belief, Big Business LOVES Big Government.

Big Business, Big Government and Big Union, the fascist triumvirate that conspire against the small individual.

Well, of course Americans are led to believe they have Small Government and that this is a Good Thing, whereas in fact they have Huge Government and it only looks Small because ordinary people don't see any of the benefits; these benefits all going to Halliburton, Blackwater et al, but paid for by current taxpayers and the poverty of their descendents.

[clv101]

US government is small in than total tax take (public spending) is under 40% of GDP compared to ours of around 45% and most EU countries coming in closer to 50%.

[biffvernon]

The economics is all pretty unimportant since, as we know, peak oil will see to the future of the global system irrespective of which decisions are made in Brussels and which on the Isle of Dogs.

The important thing is that when everything goes pear-shaped it will be better if we have friends and good standing in the eyes of our neighbours. Instead we will now be the scapegoats and have to take the blame, distracting attention from the underlying issues.

The xenophobic, anti-Europe, isolationist right wing of the Tory Party, allied to UKIP, BNP, EDL, Uncle Tom Cobly with his bulldog and the stupid folk who read the Daily Hate may turn out to be doing us all a great harm.

[extractorfan]

The economics is all pretty unimportant since, as we know, peak oil will see to the future of the global system irrespective of which decisions are made in Brussels and which on the Isle of Dogs.

The important thing is that when everything goes pear-shaped it will be better if we have friends and good standing in the eyes of our neighbours. Instead we will now be the scapegoats and have to take the blame, distracting attention from the underlying issues.

The xenophobic, anti-Europe, isolationist right wing of the Tory Party, allied to UKIP, BNP, EDL, Uncle Tom Cobly with his bulldog and the stupid folk who read the Daily Hate may turn out to be doing us all a great harm.

I'm not sure it's that serious. The French for example have always viewed us as snooty, bowler hat wearing bankers who are crap in bed and we've viewed them as garlic smelling cylists with bad breath (but great in bed).

I'm just trying to make the point that it's not the daily hate readers that matter, in fact xenophobia is rife throughout the west and we're all as bad as each other with just minor differences in who we deem to be the "other".

It remains to be seen but I have some european friends who do view us Brits as a "type" but I'm "allright" by them and vice versa.

[clv101]

Ed Miliband is currently delivering his response to Cameron's statement. He's doing really well in my opinion. He's swaying me in the direction of Cameron's decision being the wrong one.

Father of the House, Peter Tapsell delivered a robust speech in support of Cameron, "Euro is doomed" and the "EU with it".

[Ludwig]

I'm just trying to make the point that it's not the daily hate readers that matter, in fact xenophobia is rife throughout the west and we're all as bad as each other with just minor differences in who we deem to be the "other".

That's not my experience. On returning back to the UK from Europe, I'm always struck by how inward-looking the British are, how incurious about the world outside their own country, how generally oblivious to problems in the wider world. The proportion of news space and time given over to internal stories in the UK is much, much bigger than in Germany and probably France.

I've heard both French and German people describe the British as "insular" (which of course literally they are); and this is true.

That said, one needs to make the distinction between xenophobia and racism. For example the French are not particularly xenophobic regarding their close neighbours, but they can be appallingly racist towards Arabs, black people etc.

Conversely the British are pretty xenophobic, but less racist (on the whole) than many nations.

The way we are viewed by our neighbours is interesting. Germans are mostly baffled and taken aback by British germanophobia, because they rather like us. When I lived in Germany 20 years ago, Britain was having a cold snap, and the Germans were highly amused at British ineptitude at dealing with a bit of snow on the roads. But the joking was good-natured and very different from the sneering attitude in the opposite direction.

[Lord Beria3]

Well nobody has actually answered my question yet.

There is a big world outside Europe, a export orientated Britain sending goods and services to the growth economies (yes even in a post-peak world!) is a far better Britain than one stuck on the Euro Titanic.

China, India, South America, parts of Africa and the Gulf States are where the future is, not old dying Europe.

Leaving the EU will make us less insular not more. Because we will be forced to compete on a global field.

[Lord Beria3]

Ed Miliband is currently delivering his response to Cameron's statement. He's doing really well in my opinion. He's swaying me in the direction of Cameron's decision being the wrong one.

Father of the House, Peter Tapsell delivered a robust speech in support of Cameron, "Euro is doomed" and the "EU with it".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... fears.html

Really?

Britain's business leaders are far more worried about the eurozone's debt crisis than any fallout from the UK's diplomatic spat with Brussels, playing down fears that David Cameron's unprecedented treaty veto could trigger job losses or commercial retaliation.

[Ludwig]

Well nobody has actually answered my question yet.

There is a big world outside Europe, a export orientated Britain sending goods and services to the growth economies (yes even in a post-peak world!) is a far better Britain than one stuck on the Euro Titanic.

Er... one thing: we can't export anything without importing energy, and how do we import energy when we're broke?

(Actually there's an easy answer to that: by stealing it.)

[biffvernon]

Father of the House, Peter Tapsell delivered a robust speech in support of Cameron

That's it then. It was wrong.

Sir Peter is my MP. I find it a good rule of thumb to disagree with whatever he says.

(Mind you, he was against the Iraq war and is married to a French woman.)

[DominicJ]

That's not my experience. On returning back to the UK from Europe, I'm always struck by how inward-looking the British are, how incurious about the world outside their own country, how generally oblivious to problems in the wider world. The proportion of news space and time given over to internal stories in the UK is much, much bigger than in Germany and probably France.

Except of course, the UK was the centre of worlds most diverse union, the commonwealth.
It was virtualy abolished so we could join the European Customs Union, made up exclusivly of white chistian socialists.
Diversity, where different skin colours conform.

[extractorfan]

That's not my experience. On returning back to the UK from Europe, I'm always struck by how inward-looking the British are, how incurious about the world outside their own country, how generally oblivious to problems in the wider world. The proportion of news space and time given over to internal stories in the UK is much, much bigger than in Germany and probably France.

I have noticed that too, quite a while ago (about 8 years) I was in Bologne, Italy and they had a peace demonstration in a square surrounded by restaurants, there were stalls selling books about seed saving and even mention of peak oil. I was bowled over, however the Itallians I met were surprised I wasn't a raging drunk football hooligan.

Similar misconceptions of "All brits are pissheads" I've experienced in France, Germany, Czech and Hungary, although in Germany I tended to lend credence to the perception.

I accept that a lot of Brits are an embarrassment, but as we know, we're not all like the stereotype, and the same goes for arrogant Parisians, up-tight Germans etc etc.

I've heard both French and German people describe the British as "insular" (which of course literally they are); and this is true.

Yes, I think it's a lot to do with being an island nation and decades of self centered economics of greed, most of the population are insanely greedy, not just the bankers that are the current scapegoats for our crises.

[SleeperService]

I've lived in Germany and agree that they have stereotypes just as we do, they can be good natured about it or not depending on your attitude and who you're talking to. Just like here really.

My experience of the French is similar.

I have noticed that in large multi national gatherings on the Continent you'll here a lot of english being spoken even among totally non english groups. Jokes based on stereotypes also feature heavily but generally malice free.

One I heard recently from a Dane in Italy

Why do German tourists always have pushbikes on the back of their vehicles?

Because in 1945 they had to walk home and don't want to have it happen again.

The group of Germans we were in (and heavily outnumbered by) thought it was hilarious, I was just stunned by the reaction.

They still expect me to be a football hooligan though

[DominicJ]

I have noticed that in large multi national gatherings on the Continent you'll here a lot of english being spoken even among totally non english groups.

English is the worlds second language.
A Pole and a Dane in Tel Aviv will both be able to make themselves understood in English, and so converse in English.

[UndercoverElephant]

I have noticed that in large multi national gatherings on the Continent you'll here a lot of english being spoken even among totally non english groups.

English is the worlds second language.
A Pole and a Dane in Tel Aviv will both be able to make themselves understood in English, and so converse in English.

English is the world's first language. More people may speak Mandarin, but nearly all of them are in China.