End of the Euro

madibe · Post by **madibe** » 11 Dec 2011, 19:20

Remind us, what do the UK and Switzerland have in common?

Cheese

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 11 Dec 2011, 20:07

UndercoverElephant wrote: It doesn't work as a 27-state organisation.

America makes it work with 50 states, so it is possible, but I know that is a different kettle of fish.....

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 11 Dec 2011, 20:08

maudibe wrote:
Remind us, what do the UK and Switzerland have in common?
Cheese

Perhaps unwittingly, you have hit upon the reason why the french have been so narky lately. They are jealous of our cheese industry. We now make more artisan cheeses than they do. Their miffedness knows no bounds.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 11 Dec 2011, 20:42

maudibe wrote:
Remind us, what do the UK and Switzerland have in common?
Cheese

Excellent rail systems?

Cameroon has shown all the skills of a petulant drama queen leading
a party with more than it's fair share of little England rabid raving loonies.

One really worrying thought is how he would react if put in a tight
pressured corner where possible deployment of England's, oops sorry the UK's, nuclear weapons was being considered.
.

woodpecker · Post by **woodpecker** » 11 Dec 2011, 20:50

eatyourveg wrote:
maudibe wrote:
Remind us, what do the UK and Switzerland have in common?
Cheese
Perhaps unwittingly, you have hit upon the reason why the french have been so narky lately. They are jealous of our cheese industry. We now make more artisan cheeses than they do. Their miffedness knows no bounds.

Cheese-eating surrender monkeys no more?

Post by **clv101** » 11 Dec 2011, 21:17

Roger Adair wrote:One really worrying thought is how he would react if put in a tight pressured corner where possible deployment of England's, oops sorry the UK's, nuclear weapons was being considered.

Well, he [we] can't launch them without US approval anyway so I wouldn't worry to much about it, or at least Cameron's role in it.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 11 Dec 2011, 21:34

clv101 wrote:
Roger Adair wrote:One really worrying thought is how he would react if put in a tight pressured corner where possible deployment of England's, oops sorry the UK's, nuclear weapons was being considered.
Well, he [we] can't launch them without US approval anyway so I wouldn't worry to much about it, or at least Cameron's role in it.

Thanks Chris that has cheered me up no end! Not that I am suggesting
he is nursing any atavistic urge to nuke those dreadfull French and Germans.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 11 Dec 2011, 21:42

snow hope wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote: It doesn't work as a 27-state organisation.
America makes it work with 50 states, so it is possible, but I know that is a different kettle of fish.....

It is indeed a very different kettle of fish. The fifty states of the US have far more in common with each other, culturally and historically, than the 27 of the EU. Remember that not so long ago even Turkey was trying to join. Can you seriously imagine being part of the same nation as Turkey? I know I can't.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 11 Dec 2011, 21:47

clv101 wrote:
Roger Adair wrote:One really worrying thought is how he would react if put in a tight pressured corner where possible deployment of England's, oops sorry the UK's, nuclear weapons was being considered.
Well, he [we] can't launch them without US approval anyway so I wouldn't worry to much about it, or at least Cameron's role in it.

They're putting women on the Vanguard subs next year. Anything might happen.

[/coat]

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 11 Dec 2011, 21:57

My point being that Switzerland seems to thrive, why can't we?

Why is it such a disaster if we left the EU? Can anybody actually explain why it would be a disaster?

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 11 Dec 2011, 22:09

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... y-law.html

You could call it Hooverism written into EU treaty law, though that traduces Hoover. The harsher truth is that it replicates the "500 deflation decrees" of Pierre Laval, later shot by a Free French firing squad.

It is happening just as Europe’s banks slash their books to meet the EU’s core Tier I capital ratios of 9pc. The Basel-based Financial Stability Board - the collective voice of the world’s monetary authorities - fears the banks could inflict a €2.4 trillion crunch over "coming months", just as Euroland crashes back into recession. It is hard to imagine a more reckless recipe for social disorder than to combine these shocks at once.

Europe’s mishandling of its affairs is now grave enough to alarm the Pentagon, presumably well-briefed by the DIA, NSA, and ECHELON network of electronic eaves-dropping.

"We are extraordinarily concerned by the health and viability of the euro because in some ways we’re exposed literally to contracts but also because of the potential of civil unrest and break-up of the union,’’ said General Martin Dempsey, chair of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff.

This is a stunning and chilling statement. What does the Pentagon know that we don't thanks to their listening on the private conversations/documents of the European banking and political elite?

Forget the Cameron/European spat, this is the serious business here.

leroy · Post by **leroy** » 12 Dec 2011, 00:13

If you're not at the table, you are on the menu

Can't remember who said that in the last couple of days of commentary, but it seems like a strong idea to me. London's financial standing as a point of exchange in Europe (for whatever such things will be worth in coming times) is at risk here, isn't it?

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 12 Dec 2011, 08:48

snow hope wrote:The EU was all about creating the conditions under which war could not occur again I thought?

The purpose of the EU is was and always will be the creation of a United States of Europe, or a Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
It was never a free trade arewa, it was a customs union.

Snow

America makes it work with 50 states, so it is possible, but I know that is a different kettle of fish.....

Americans states have far more independance from the federal government than EU nations have from brussels.
America is Switzerland writ large, EUrope is not....
America also has massive, permanant fiscal transfers. 10% of US GDP is money taken from rich states and goven to poor ones, is the UK going to abolish the NHS and give the money to Greece, forever?

All
What have we achieved by "being at the table" for the last 50 years?
Why can Australia manage trade with China without political union?
Why dont you argue South Africa and Zimbabwe should be merging?

The purpose of the EU is ever closer union.
We can either accept nthat purpose and follow through, or we can not and leave, we cannot change it, nor should we try.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 12 Dec 2011, 11:58

Some great headlines on the BBC at the moment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16135247

RBS woes caused by poor decisions, says FSA

No shit, Sherlock!

But more on-topic:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16133286

Big business deeply troubled by Cameron's veto

Well, this is interesting. We have a Tory prime minister who has just done something his own party were desperate for him to do, but which has apparently put the fear of God into Big Business. That doesn't normally happen, and I think it makes clear a growing conflict between the "national interest" (where this refers to the interests of the rich, tory-voting upper classes) and the interests of multinational big business. The Tories want to repatriate power from Brussels, but in doing so they now find themselves on the other side of a major disagreement with the evil megacorporations.

Divide and conquer....?

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 12 Dec 2011, 12:12

UE
Contrary to popular belief, Big Business LOVES Big Government.

Big Business, Big Government and Big Union, the fascist triumvirate that conspire against the small individual.