Gun training

[kenneal - lagger]

VT
The red deer is the largest of the UK deer population by a long way. Fallow deer are smaller and roe deer smaller than fallow. There are masses of muntjac which are about the size of a medium sized dog and a few other introduced deer. There are a few wild boar which have escaped, or been released by animal rights people, from farms and it is reputed that there are a few panthers about, again escapees from captivity. so we don't have many large animals. By law, the minimum size gun for shooting a deer is a .243 using a 100 grain hollow point bullet. It is "relatively" easiy to get a certificate for a .243 but go above that size and you need a very large area of land to shoot over.

We've had about 25 to 30 mainly roe and some muntjac shot on our land over the last two years. Before that they were devastating our vegetable garden. These supposedly shy animals would come up on our patio and eat the salads that we grow there. They are still around but in far fewer numbers and they keep away from the house now.

Ludwig
The machete or panga is a gardening tool in much of Africa which is why it was/is used so much to kill/main people. It is the weapon to hand.

Shetlandpeat
A recurve bow is/was a bow that, before being strung, curved at the ends away from the bowman and, when strung, the ends were in line with the bow string. Hope that describes it.

As for using the bayonet, troops were drilled to scream as they use it to blot out what they are doing and the sound of the consequences. It was thought that casualties in the WW2 would have been higher if many soldiers had shot at the target rather than in its general direction.

[DominicJ]

It was thought that casualties in the WW2 would have been higher if many soldiers had shot at the target rather than in its general direction.

Actualy hitting a person in the field is extremely difficult.
Most deaths in both world wars, at least on the western front, came from explosives, from artilery, to tank guns, to squad level mortars and hand grenades.

Bullets do little more than keep the other side hiding behind a wall.
Theres more than a few military writiers who think we should cease to think of infantry rifles as killing weapons.

Not that I agree it takes any great amount of training to "desensitise" someone. People simply dont react to unknown situations, if you've never punched someone in the face, expecting your body to do so on instinct is a bit of a push.

[Ludwig]

Ludwig
The machete or panga is a gardening tool in much of Africa which is why it was/is used so much to kill/main people. It is the weapon to hand.

In that case, why did the government hand them out in hundreds of thousands?
Jared Diamond reports this in "Collapse" (along with some interesting other nuggets, like widespread Hutu-Hutu killings: overpopulation was the core problem and had created intolerable social tensions).

[kenneal - lagger]

Most deaths in both world wars, at least on the western front, came from explosives, from artilery, to tank guns, to squad level mortars and hand grenades.

Bullets do little more than keep the other side hiding behind a wall.
Theres more than a few military writiers who think we should cease to think of infantry rifles as killing weapons.

You forgot about the machine guns which cut down men almost as soon as they emerged from their trenches in many cases in WW1.

[DominicJ]

Good point, I did mispeak there rather badly, but they were less of a threat in the second world war when people stopped lining up for them.
There purpose reverted to keeping the enemy in cover.

[vtsnowedin]

Good point, I did mispeak there rather badly, but they were less of a threat in the second world war when people stopped lining up for them.
There purpose reverted to keeping the enemy in cover.

I expect that those who have served in infantry rifle squads will differ with that opinion.
The army is bedeviled by the need to sort out those who both can and will shoot to kill from those who best serve by driving a truck or peeling potatoes.
But in competent hands the rifle is an efficient killing tool and is what protects the mortar men and machine gunners while they move in and set up their equipment. Must have equipment and personnel.

[Catweazle]

A skilled rifleman is a very useful soldier. Don't be fooled by Hollywood portrayals of them spraying hundreds of rounds and hitting nothing, a trained soldier will kill you at 300yds if he can see just your head. No civilian in his right mind would offer a fight to a couple of armed soldiers.

[DominicJ]

Wait what why am I being shot at?

and is what protects the mortar men and machine gunners while they move in and set up their equipment. Must have equipment and personnel.

a trained soldier will kill you at 300yds if he can see just your head.

And a trained soldier will make sure his head cannot be seen at 300yds.
So two sets of riflemen may fire a lot, but are unlikely to kill the other side, even if they force them to retreat.
Both will choose to remain in cover whilst under fire, and will refuse to remain outside cover for long periods of time.

I'm not argueing we should revert to all mortars (although I read a compelling, if somewhat jokey arguement, that grenade launchers should be the "standard").

On the range, most soldiers can happily hit targets 600yds out.
When the target isnt a big white board with a bloke drawn on it, is hiding, and shooting back, marksmanship drops hugely.

[featherstick]

Have you ever been a soldier, Dom?

[DominicJ]

Nope

Never been an astronought either, doesnt stop me having an opinion on space....

[featherstick]

But it's an opinion, right? Just checking, like.

[vtsnowedin]

Wait what why am I being shot at?

You stuck your head (or your opinion) out.
Nothing more.