China tells Europe -work harder and cut the welfare state

[alternative-energy]

Apologies for getting angry alternative-energy.

Wellfare has turned into a farce, but should not be abolished.

No, it's me who should apologise for jumping to conclusions.
Agree. A safety net is always needed but now we can't afford the entitlements that have been built over the last 50 years or so some people are in for a real shock in the next few years. I also agree that we shouldn't be selling assets to China but they kind of have the upperhand now and have totally out-gamed the profligate and debt riddled West.

[Ludwig]

Apologies for getting angry alternative-energy.

Wellfare has turned into a farce, but should not be abolished.

No, it's me who should apologise for jumping to conclusions.
Agree. A safety net is always needed but now we can't afford the entitlements that have been built over the last 50 years or so some people are in for a real shock in the next few years. I also agree that we shouldn't be selling assets to China but they kind of have the upperhand now and have totally out-gamed the profligate and debt riddled West.

Not really, given that their assets are tied up in US bonds.

Russia has outgamed everyone, but no one's noticed: it is quietly standing back and watching while the West and China go under, shackled together.

[Ludwig]

Indeed. It makes no economic sense for companies to distribute work among more people.

In fact, the opposite happens. Rather than two people doing one person's job, one person is made to do two people's jobs.

That's not what I wrote. Each company would have to distribute less work among the same number of people. Yes, this is less efficient, and projects would take twice as long, but you're taking it as axiomatic that efficiency is the only thing that matters. The wider needs of society are also important. Choose between a country where half the people are as well off financially as they are now and the other half destitute, and one where everyone is half as well off as they are now.

Oh, I know what I'd choose, but that goes against the principles by which the world is actually governed.

[An Inspector Calls]

Peak Welfare State

Spot on, coupled with Peak Credit Card Limit.

[frank_begbie]

Slowly (maybe not that slowly) but surely you can see each government in turn has been chopping away at the welfare state.

The "recession" has given them the excuse they needed to put their foot on the accelerator.

In the not too distant future, only the pensioners and the very sick will be receiving any handouts.

Back to the 30s.

[DominicJ]

Frank
No, they have not, the welfare state started at 5% of GDP, now its 15% of GDP

[frank_begbie]

Frank
No, they have not, the welfare state started at 5% of GDP, now its 15% of GDP

Sorry, my mistake, I thought they had been cutting the budget over the last 40 years or so.

Thanks for putting things right

[Ludwig]

Frank
No, they have not, the welfare state started at 5% of GDP, now its 15% of GDP

Sorry, my mistake, I thought they had been cutting the budget over the last 40 years or so.

The Tories have always tried to, but ended up increasing it. The only way of not feeding the unemployed without them causing trouble is to exterminate them.

I'm not saying there's an answer that is both easy and fair, but we can be sure the latter isn't even a consideration for this government.

[frank_begbie]

Frank
No, they have not, the welfare state started at 5% of GDP, now its 15% of GDP

Sorry, my mistake, I thought they had been cutting the budget over the last 40 years or so.

The Tories have always tried to, but ended up increasing it. The only way of not feeding the unemployed without them causing trouble is to exterminate them.

I'm not saying there's an answer that is both easy and fair, but we can be sure the latter isn't even a consideration for this government.

So, we need another war then. Trouble is convincing the masses that they have something to fight for.

[Ludwig]

So, we need another war then. Trouble is convincing the masses that they have something to fight for.

Won't be difficult. The average person is only too willing to be given a hate figure. A couple of false flag attacks and Bob's your uncle.

Add to that the fact that a large proportion of young men have had violent fantasies stoked up by hyper-realistic video games - so realistic in fact that there's only one step up, and that's to do it for real.

Once a war is under way, anyone who openly rejects the cause gets spat on in the street. Fear of ostracism is far stronger than principle, for most people.

[Lord Beria3]

Indeed, contrary to popular opinion, even after the recent round of 'cuts' the overall public spending will rise in the next five years and the national debt will nearly double!

Indeed, the coalition cuts (real in certain departments) are almost exactly the same amount as the cuts planned by the previous Darling/Brown Labour government.

Not sure where this 'evil Tory' thing has come from, since I see no difference with any other party, including Liberal Democrats.

[kenneal - lagger]

Not sure where this 'evil Tory' thing has come from, since I see no difference with any other party, including Liberal Democrats.

The average person is only too willing to be given a hate figure

And Ludwig knows who his is!! Saves thinking things through fully.

Seriously though, Monbiot has come up with some good research in this article about our "wealth creators". It says that poor young psychopaths end up in prisons whereas rich young psychopaths end up running big business as many businessmen share the same psychopathic tendencies as criminals. Chimes with my thought that most of the super rich have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder but it seems that I am being kind to them. Or perhaps OCD is just one of their problems.

RogueMale's point about sharing work is one that has been proposed in a book that I am reading by Peter McManners called Victims of Success - Civilisation at Risk. He has suggested the same. The thing that makes it possible to reduce the number of people working for a company while producing the same or increased output, increasing productivity, is the fossil fuel subsidy. Once fossil fuels become more expensive or rarer it then becomes "economic" (I am starting to hate that word) to employ more people to do the work rather than machines.

Going back further into the thread, if we carry on criticising the Chinese over their human rights record they are going to criticise us in return whenever they can. And our, Western, profligate government spending over the last several years, be it on welfare or weapons and war, leaves us open to such criticism. Our reliance on credit to make up for deficient trickle down of profits into wages is also an area where we are wide open.

I do agree that we need a safety net of welfare provisions but it should be a only safety net and it shouldn't be wide open to fraudulent claims either. For Ludwig's benefit and a few others, much of the Welfare State was started by the prewar Tory Chamberlain government such as the 6/5.5 day week, paid holidays and maternity provision. Much more welfare provision would have been put in place were it not for the intervention of Mr Hitler and WW2. The post war Labour government just carried the scheme on.

[biffvernon]

Seems China's land grab has a problem in Iceland, where the Interior Minister, Ögmundur Jónasson, has blocked a 300km2 purchase.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/26b0f8e2-178a ... z1eumMc396

[kenneal - lagger]

Seems China's land grab has a problem in Iceland, where the Interior Minister, Ögmundur Jónasson, has blocked a 300km2 purchase.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/26b0f8e2-178a ... z1eumMc396

This man has a high regard for his fellow countrymen!

“Who would you prefer to own a large Icelandic farm: a poetry-writing, nature-loving Chinese businessmen, or one of our homegrown criminal Viking raiders?” asked Jon Baldvin Hannibaldsson, former finance minister. “To me, there is only one answer.”

Are they the ones who ran the Icelandic banks?

[biffvernon]

Yes, note that that was the former minister not the current one.