Consultation on Public Data Corporation

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 15 Oct 2011, 23:38

The Government has launched a consultation asking how it should release the data held by Ordnance Survey, the Met Office and the Land Registry: shortly to become the Public Data Corporation.

http://pdcconsult.ernestmarples.com/

extractorfan · Post by **extractorfan** » 16 Oct 2011, 19:35

Isn't all that data available to who wants it anyway?

Don't understand, If I want ordnance survey data I buy a map!

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 16 Oct 2011, 20:19

Yeah but the part that you get on the map is a tiny subset of the data that has been gathered by a publicly owned body. You have to pay for the rest. If it is privatised you'll be paying a private company rather than our own state. The point is that all the data should be free. Privatising is going to make it even worse.

Trust the Tories to go in exactly the wrong direction.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 17 Oct 2011, 04:39

I don't see why all the data should be free. It can't be free as it cost money to gather. Ordnance Survey surveyors have to go out and take aerial photos or measure stuff on the ground. The Met Office sends up very expensive satellites and owns some of the biggest computers in the country. Somebody has to pay for those services and costs. We either ALL pay for it by taxation or those who want it pay for it by purchasing it.

If I need OS data for a planning application for a client I pay for it and pass the cost onto my client who is the person who ultimately requires the information. If I make a planning application for myself, I pay for the OS data. I can either buy a paper copy of the plan or pay a bit more for digital data to put into my CAD program which makes my job easier. What could be fairer than that? Why should Joe Bloggs next door pay for data that I require?

If I wnat to know what the weather is next day I can listen to a Weather Forecast. That is either paid for in my TV license fee or by an advertiser. If I want a special forecast to determine whether or not I can do without a tent for the festival I am organising next month I have to pay for that information. That's fair enough as far as I'm concerned. Why should you have to pay for that, for me, commercially advantageous information?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 17 Oct 2011, 07:33

The Met Office and the OS put a lot of data on the Net for free. More you have to pay for. I'd like to see that boundary moved. The reason? It would make the economy more efficient if these services were paid for through general taxation and then free at the point of use.

Like roads. You don't have to pay to ride your bike to visit a client. Your business would work more smoothly if you did not have to go through the process of paying for a downloaded plan and felt restricted as to how many you could print off.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 17 Oct 2011, 07:37

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 17 Oct 2011, 07:43

kenneal wrote:

Does that rolling eyes symbol say "I'm a Tory so don't accept that public ownership of any means of production is the way to go. Roads should be priced. Pay if you step on the pavement."

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 17 Oct 2011, 07:53

It means that I don't believe there is anything to be gained by giving things away free. It generally leads to wastage as people don't value what is free and abuse it. If Ordnance Survey maps were free I would have a full set because I like maps. I probably wouldn't use most of them, if any, and I certainly don't need them but I like looking at them. Why should I have that at the expense of someone who would have to pay extra tax? It is a less efficient way of providing stuff.

An OS map or plan isn't something that is essential to everyone so why should they be free.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 17 Oct 2011, 08:17

Do read what I wrote. I called for a shift in the boundary not the making of everything free. The example I gave was of dowloading a plan you might want for a client for free and then having the right to print off as many coppies as you need. You would be paying for the paper and ink so would have an incentive not to waste it. The data is there and there is very little additonal cost to the economy/environment making it freely available but a benefit to businesses such as your and hence the whole economy.

If you want a paper OS map then of course you should pay for it.

Of course stuff that is given away free gets wasted - just look at roads, folk idly walking about, hanging around, admiring the sunset. Price them off the pavements!

Post by **clv101** » 17 Oct 2011, 11:23

kenneal wrote:It means that I don't believe there is anything to be gained by giving things away free. It generally leads to wastage as people don't value what is free and abuse it. If Ordnance Survey maps were free I would have a full set because I like maps.

This isn't about giving physical stuff away for free. It's about access to data. The to suggest that there's nothing to be gained by giving things away for free is crazy - what about Google Maps and all the mashups that have come from that data set? What about Wikipedia or even Linux?

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 17 Oct 2011, 16:18

kenneal wrote:If I need OS data for a planning application for a client I pay for it and pass the cost onto my client who is the person who ultimately requires the information. If I make a planning application for myself, I pay for the OS data. I can either buy a paper copy of the plan or pay a bit more for digital data to put into my CAD program which makes my job easier. What could be fairer than that? Why should Joe Bloggs next door pay for data that I require?

It's not quite as simple as that; OS data feeds into products such as Sat Nav, Routeing Engines and such like, which are specially priced low for the "consumer market" or even conditionally free for web access. They charge a lot more for business use (e.g. quarterly royalty payments), which makes it awkward for those providing mapping services to people who have the attitude of, "I can buy TomTom for much less than this".

There is an EU movement for mapping data to be free for public use.