Current Gold Price

[biffvernon]

I had in mind, particularly, LB3's comment "And whose side is Biff on? The bankers, parasites and criminals!", but, Like Ludwig, I've no idea what he's on about.

[ziggy12345]

With regards to the gold standard...

A host of alternatives has been suggested, including energy-based currencies, and market baskets of currencies or commodities, gold being one of the alternatives.

Glad to see an energy based standard is at least a possibility

http://www.theperfectcurrency.org/home-3.htm

[UndercoverElephant]

With regards to the gold standard...

A host of alternatives has been suggested, including energy-based currencies, and market baskets of currencies or commodities, gold being one of the alternatives.

Glad to see an energy based standard is at least a possibility

http://www.theperfectcurrency.org/home-3.htm

Thanks for posting that. Biff, please read it.

Our current national policy focus on monetary flows is one of the prime reasons for the disconnect between policy makers and environmentalists. The GDP/monetary metric simply does not represent the physical processes or the assets of the real world which environmentalists see as essential, uncounted and rapidly degrading.

Gold, energy, a basket of physical commodities. Anything but fiat money not backed by anything physical would be a vast improvement.

[biffvernon]

. Biff, please read it.

I did.

Energy based money is an interesting idea and deserves a thread of it's own as it's only tangentially related to the price of gold.

If the environment is one's concern then TEQs offer a quicker solution without having to change the whole shebang.

Energy based money will certainly raise some challenging issues.

[UndercoverElephant]

. Biff, please read it.

I did.

Energy based money is an interesting idea and deserves a thread of it's own as it's only tangentially related to the price of gold.

It is directly related to the discussion I have been having with you about why the gold standard would be better than fiat money: we live in a world of finite resources, so we need a currency which is tied to a finite resource. That resource could be gold, energy or both of them.

If the environment is one's concern then TEQs offer a quicker solution without having to change the whole shebang.

I think you didn't understand the point of the article.

"The whole shebang" (fiat currencies) is a central part of the problem. It needs to be changed.

[biffvernon]

Of course it needs changing. I'm just not convinced that changing to gold standard would improve things. One thing it would certainly do is provide a bigger incentive to dig more of the stuff up, and that just spoils the view.

Changing to an energy based currency takes a bit of thinking through and I confess I've not really got my head round it yet.

Energy is certainly not (in terms of the Earth being the system boundary) a finite resource. I know that by looking out the window. The Sun is shining. Flow rate may have an upper limit (way more than we need) but you can be sure of a new delivery cometh the dawn.

[UndercoverElephant]

Of course it needs changing. I'm just not convinced that changing to gold standard would improve things. One thing it would certainly do is provide a bigger incentive to dig more of the stuff up, and that just spoils the view.

That's nonsense, Biff. As long as the free market price of gold is higher than the production costs (and it is already much higher), people will have an incentive to mine for gold. Actually going on the gold standard doesn't provide any "bigger incentive". If it is profitable to dig up gold, people will dig it up.

Changing to an energy based currency takes a bit of thinking through and I confess I've not really got my head round it yet.

Energy is certainly not (in terms of the Earth being the system boundary) a finite resource.

It's also not easy to store long-term. Which is why GOLD is a better idea.

[biffvernon]

But you said

we live in a world of finite resources, so we need a currency which is tied to a finite resource. That resource could be gold, energy or both of them.

I pointed out that energy is not a finite resource.

And if the only thing we used gold for was in the electronics industry and a bit of bling the price would drop and gold mines would close. That would be a good thing.

At least that's what I think, what with not owning a gold mine.

[UndercoverElephant]

But you said

we live in a world of finite resources, so we need a currency which is tied to a finite resource. That resource could be gold, energy or both of them.

I pointed out that energy is not a finite resource.

And if the only thing we used gold for was in the electronics industry and a bit of bling the price would drop and gold mines would close. That would be a good thing.

At least that's what I think, what with not owning a gold mine.

You are still busily concentrating on things that irrelevant, Biff. I've already explained that in a world where decreasing growth is expected, there is no monetary need to mine more gold. I've also explained that so long as the price of gold is higher than the production costs, mining will continue regardless of whether gold is fully re-monetarised.

And all you can say in response, parrot-like, is "gold mining is bad."

Gold mining might well be bad, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it is a good idea to have gold-backed currencies.

[clv101]

Of course it needs changing. I'm just not convinced that changing to gold standard would improve things. One thing it would certainly do is provide a bigger incentive to dig more of the stuff up, and that just spoils the view.

That's nonsense, Biff. As long as the free market price of gold is higher than the production costs (and it is already much higher), people will have an incentive to mine for gold. Actually going on the gold standard doesn't provide any "bigger incentive". If it is profitable to dig up gold, people will dig it up.

Again, UE, the world is not binary. It's not a case of "profitable" meaning one set of things will happen and not profitable meaning another. It's clear that mining gold has become more profitable over the last decade, it is only logical to assume this will lead to more mining. Mountains that previously weren't worth mining, now are.

It should be crystal clear that mining gold has a negative environmental impact and equally clear that the increased demand for gold, reflected in the price, increases this negative impact. Of course there are many other aspects, but this relationship should be beyond question.

[UndercoverElephant]

Getting back on-topic, gold has just broken through its previous intra-day highs.

£1160 at the moment, did briefly break through $1900.

[Lord Beria3]

Thanks UE - exactly my point. Gold is the antithesis to the fiat currency, banking system based on eternal growth which Biff is in principle opposed to. By dissing gold and the idea of the Gold Standard, he is ironically supporting the status quo.

Ludwig - I do care about society, but I also care about protecting my own wealth in a era of where bankers are trying to destroy the value of cash... I see no reason why it is wrong to protect yourself from these parasites. Thats what they are btw

[UndercoverElephant]

Gerald Celente tells it how it is:

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldn ... 3A2011.mp3

This man should be put on stage. Half the interview is about gold, but then he starts talking about population, globalisation and the breakdown of western civilisation. The last third of the interview could be Bill Hicks talking.

[raspberry-blower]

Interesting post up at those gold bugs over at Zero Hedge - The Great Gold crash of 1869

[UndercoverElephant]

An even more interesting post from the same place. Wikileaks have published this:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/wikileaks ... ying-spree

From Wikileaks:

3. CHINA'S GOLD RESERVES

"China increases its gold reserves in order to kill two birds with one stone"

"The China Radio International sponsored newspaper World News Journal (Shijie Xinwenbao)(04/28): "According to China's National Foreign Exchanges Administration China 's gold reserves have recently increased. Currently, the majority of its gold reserves have been located in the U.S. and European countries. The U.S. and Europe have always suppressed the rising price of gold. They intend to weaken gold's function as an international reserve currency. They don't want to see other countries turning to gold reserves instead of the U.S. dollar or Euro. Therefore, suppressing the price of gold is very beneficial for the U.S. in maintaining the U.S. dollar's role as the international reserve currency. China's increased gold reserves will thus act as a model and lead other countries towards reserving more gold. Large gold reserves are also beneficial in promoting the internationalization of the RMB."