Current Gold Price

[UndercoverElephant]

The love of gold has consequences: the destruction of Rosia Mountain.
http://www.worldcrunch.com/gold-rush-st ... lions/3641

You could probably find similar examples for every sort of mining/drilling industry.

And it is not about "love of gold." It's about protecting oneself from the debasement of fiat currencies by the criminal gangs which run the modern world.

[clv101]

The love of gold has consequences: the destruction of Rosia Mountain.
http://www.worldcrunch.com/gold-rush-st ... lions/3641

You could probably find similar examples for every sort of mining/drilling industry.

And the point would be equally valid - gold, like all the others, is a finite mineral resource, the extraction of which has environmental damage.

[biffvernon]

You could probably find similar examples for every sort of mining/drilling industry.

And it is not about "love of gold." It's about protecting oneself from the debasement of fiat currencies by the criminal gangs which run the modern world.

My default position is to be against all mining but at least the damaging effects of some metals mining can be mitigated by the usefulness of the product. Gold is just bling.

I don't see how one is protecting oneself from the criminal gangs which run the modern world by encourageing them to destroy mountains.

[emordnilap]

Maybe Syria can heave a sigh of relief...Romania might be next to be 'liberated'!

Seriously, we really need fossil energy to get much scarcer, to protect places like these (and others).

[UndercoverElephant]

You could probably find similar examples for every sort of mining/drilling industry.

And it is not about "love of gold." It's about protecting oneself from the debasement of fiat currencies by the criminal gangs which run the modern world.

My default position is to be against all mining but at least the damaging effects of some metals mining can be mitigated by the usefulness of the product. Gold is just bling.

I don't see how one is protecting oneself from the criminal gangs which run the modern world by encourageing them to destroy mountains.

I have already explained this to you in detail, and you totally ignored me.

How many times have we discussed on this board the need to change our economic system so it doesn't depend on impossible never-ending growth? How can we do that when our goverments are able to print limitless amounts of money? Why do you think that Hugo Chavez, who is fighting an overt idealogical war against capitalism, has asked for his gold back?

Gold is just bling??? No it isn't, Biff. Gold is the achilles' heel of the capitalist system which is both killing the planet and ensuring the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We need a monetary system where the amount of money in circulation is restricted in the same way that the amount of available natural resources are. Is that really so difficult to understand? Limiting the amount of money in existence limits the ability of banks/governments/corporations to borrow from the future on the basis of expected future growth. It FORCES economics to change in such a way that zero-growth (or very low growth) is to be expected. That's one of the main reasons why the modern world is not on the gold standard. The economists told us that because the amount of human activity (consumption of resources, number of humans) is set to continually increase, we must be able to increase the money supply at will. So, they said, we need a form of money we can print at will and if we peg it to gold then we will suffer deflation (because the amount of money can't increase to represent the amount of extra consumption/people). Are you getting this yet??? Penny dropping???

All you are are concentrating on are idealistic irrelevances. Mining for metals has been going on since the bronze age, and it isn't going to stop any time soon. How about taking a look at the bigger picture instead? I know you hate both the Capitalist system to which we are slaves and the failure of politicians/economists to accept that economic growth can't go on increasing forever. Yet when the most obvious solution to both problems presents itself, you small-mindedly reject it without ever thinking about it on the grounds that "gold is just bling."

Please wake up, Biff. If you actually think about this properly, you should be on our side. You are unwittingly defending a status quo that you hate. Gold isn't the problem here. It is a very important part of the solution.

[clv101]

Gold isn't the problem here. It is a very important part of the solution.

The world isn't binary! Gold is certainly part of the problem and it could very well simultaneously be part of the solution.

[UndercoverElephant]

Gold isn't the problem here. It is a very important part of the solution.

The world isn't binary! Gold is certainly part of the problem and it could very well simultaneously be part of the solution.

It's a key part of the solution to the monetary problems the world currently faces, and also of the need to control expectations/predictions about future growth. If it is part of the problem, then by the same standards so is pretty much every aspect of the industrialised world.

It is important to note that in the long run, as populations and consumption decrease, we could use gold as a form of money without ever having to mine any more of it. In that situation, would it still be part of the problem? Because it sounds like Biff would say that it is, because he appears to have some sort of ideological objection to the use of gold as money. Or perhaps he just as an ideological objection to the use of money at all, I don't know...

[biffvernon]

I am awake, UE.
Some aspects of the economy are not restricted by the limits of natural resources; the activity of string quartets, hairdressers and flower arrangers, for examples. It would be a pity if the only way these activities could increase is by destroying more mountains. Fake money, scraps of paper saying IOU, seems to me a smart alternative to metal that just makes holes in you trouser pocket.

[UndercoverElephant]

I am awake, UE.
Some aspects of the economy are not restricted by the limits of natural resources; the activity of string quartets, hairdressers and flower arrangers, for examples. It would be a pity if the only way these activities could increase is by destroying more mountains. Fake money, scraps of paper saying IOU, seems to me a smart alternative to metal that just makes holes in you trouser pocket.

Right. So you are willing to put up with a dysfunction monetary and economic system because paper money doesn't put holes in your trousers, even though "paper money" largely consists of iron-nickel-copper coins which put holes in your trousers.

Biff....if we went back on the gold standard then we would still use paper money and coins made of non-precious metals. The difference would be that the powers that be could only produce a limited amount of these tokens, and that the tokens would be redeemable for real physical assets at a fixed rate.

Although I don't know why I'm bothering to explain this to you, because it will go in one ear and straight out the other. You aren't listening to me. Perhaps I'll try another angle. The big fear of the anti-gold-standard people is deflation. That is the situation where the amount of consumption/people is increasing but the amount of money is not increasing at the same rate. That means that prices are going down, so anybody who has any savings is seeing the buying power of their money go up. That in turn means that there is no point in them spending money on things they don't need right now (or don't need at all). Why buy a new TV now when you will be able to get a nicer one for the same money next year? Better to just keep the old one for a while.... Now, I hope you can see why the defenders of consumerism can't tolerate this idea. And that's just one more reason why you ought to like it.

[emordnilap]

Seriously, we really need fossil energy to get much scarcer, to protect places like these (and others).

A bit like this, maybe: Could it be that the Seneca cliff is what we are facing, right now?

With a telling sentence, "when extraction costs go up, operators simply move to regions where costs are lower. What happens when there is no new region to move to?"

And, ahem, "Cheaper petrol is an environmental threat". Not news, really...

[UndercoverElephant]

Biff,

You really ought to take a look at whose side you are fighting for here.

http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/gold_s ... _083020117

Why Bankers, Governments and Mainstream Media Hate Gold - 30 August 2011

Mainstream discussions about a gold standard are full of lies and propaganda...

I SIMPLY can't believe how many inane comments I've heard about gold and the gold standard over the last week, writes Porter Stansberry, founder of S&A Research.

When the mainstream media begins to discuss gold as an alternative to paper money, it's a sign we're either in the midst of a massive devaluation or at a top in Gold Prices – or both. It's certainly a worrisome sign to see so much discussion on Fox News and CNBC about gold.

Even worse, the pinheads on TV know nothing about gold, so they repeat the lies they've been told by their producers. They have no idea how stupid they sound because they've never thought about gold or studied it. I'm sure you've heard this nonsense too...

"Gold is just another fiat currency"..."The gold standard didn't work because it limits economic growth to the availability of additional gold"..."We could never return to the gold standard because our economy is too big and there's not enough gold."

I want to dispel these falsehoods and show you why the common man should greatly prefer gold-backed money. I can imagine the groans...and envision the number of people who stop reading right here.

But I hope you will read what follows and think deeply about these ideas. I want you to know why bankers hate gold, why the government hates gold, why the mainstream media hates gold...and why you should treasure gold as your most important weapon for economic freedom.

[continues]

Please read it, and think about it.

And therein lies the secret to our story...

Any reasonable study of paper-money systems versus gold-backed monetary systems demonstrates the superiority of gold immediately. So...why does almost every modern government choose paper? The answer is because paper money allows the wealthy and powerful vested interests in our economy to manipulate interest rates, prices, the money supply, and credit to their exclusive advantage.

And YOU, Biff, are on the side of fiat money. You are fighting for the enemy.

[UndercoverElephant]

Just found this, and it is an eye-opener.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43898638

There is a public poll.

Do you support a return to something resembling the gold standard?

Yes 66%
No 28%
Unsure 7%

Total Votes: 2121

I thought there would be a majority against. This indicates to me that the public - at least those who would read this sort of article and vote on it - have already decided that the fiat money system is either in need of replacement or doomed to fail. Which is to say they are way ahead of the mainstream media, the politicians and the powers that be.

[ziggy12345]

Why do you think the gold standard would be more stable than FIAT currency?

[UndercoverElephant]

Why do you think the gold standard would be more stable than FIAT currency?

http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/gold_s ... _083020117

Some people (like yours truly) knew a massive inflation was inevitable because of the enormous amount of credit created in the banking system from 1990-2006 – roughly $45 trillion. There's no way to finance these debts with sound money, let alone repay them. But we'll get to this part of the discussion in a minute. Let's just deal with the inflationary reality of paper money for now.

How anyone can look at that chart and not see inflation is beyond me...But as you know, several well-known economists (and even a few analysts at Stansberry Research) continue to insist that there is no inflation. When I hear that kind of baloney, it makes me want to grab those guys by the backs of their necks and push their faces into this chart. If that's not inflation, what would you call it?!

Inflation has been so prevalent for so long, most people don't even know it's not part of a normal economic system. Data on consumer prices from 1596-1971 in Britain prove conclusively that during gold-standard periods, commodity prices remain level – even over hundreds of years, during periods of massive economic growth and soaring populations.

So as should be intuitively clear to even a sixth-grader...printing more money leads to higher prices, a monetary phenomenon we call inflation. Printing money does not create real wealth or help promote economic growth. In fact, I believe printing money tends to retard production because it interferes with prices, forcing entrepreneurs to engage in speculation (hedging) to protect margins.

In a world of declining resources, even a gold-backed currency would experience inflation (because of supply/demand effects), but this would be very small compared to the amount of inflation that has occurred since 1971 and miniscule compared to what is coming soon.

As an aside, I've noticed recently on other boards I post on that threads about precious metals and a possible return to the gold standard are routinely censored and/or deleted. The only other place I post where there has been a frank, open debate that did not get shut down by officialdom is the James Randi Educational Foundation - a place where most of the inhabitants are deeply suspicious of anybody they think is misleading them about what is really going on.

[biffvernon]

The trouble is that I don't think it actually makes any difference to the grand scheme of things if we have a gold standard or not. People will still want stuff. More stuff than the Earth can safely provide. It's going to take more than a change in the mechanism of banking to alter that.

Meanwhile the good folk of Rosia Montana suffer.