I predict a riot!!!

[PS_RalphW]

First successful appeal against jail sentance related to the riots

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-14589259

5 months jail reduced to 75 hours unpaid work.

[Lord Beria3]

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug20 ... -a19.shtml

Interesting article on how New Yorks police are preparing for social unrest. New York is one of the most unequal societies in the world and ripe for a social explosion.

In terms of income distribution, New York City, the capital of the US financial sector, is the most unequal major city in the US and is among the most unequal cities in the world. According to recent figures, the city’s top 1 percent monopolizes 44 percent of income. The city’s boundaries encompass both Wall Street, where top executives rake in salaries and bonuses amounting to hundreds of millions of dollars, and the Bronx, the poorest county in the country. If it were a country, New York City would be one of the most unequal in the world, ranking between Chile and Honduras.

The combination of stark social inequality, depression-level unemployment in many city neighborhoods, ever-escalating budget cuts and relentless police harassment are creating the conditions for a social eruption in America’s largest city.

[biffvernon]

Naomi Klein is one of the more perceptive commentators:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... lights-off

[UndercoverElephant]

Naomi Klein is one of the more perceptive commentators:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... lights-off

Yes. Good job there are at least a few people out there who understand what's happening and aren't afraid to tell people.

We cannot make progress towards reconstructing a post-peak UK until the CANCER that is the banking profession is cut out. The bankers MUST suffer, or there can be no new social contract.

[Totally_Baffled]

Agreed, conservative estimates of tax avoidance I heard mentioned in an interview on the BBC as circa £30 billion per annum (from the very wealthy end of the economy)

Even if half of this could be secured thats 600,000 jobs at 25K per annum, and it wouldnt effect the deficit reduction plan.

One thought I had randomly the other day was that , one of the reasons why taxing the rich is risky is the wealth may move abroad or large banks/corporations take their HQ's abroad.

Would it be possible to make all companies pay tax on the profit they make in the UK regardless of where the company is listed or where their HQ is registered?

I might cost a bit in admin, and it would require some extra international cooperation- but this would be tiny compared to the tax recovered?

[DominicJ]

TB
Do you pay more tax than you are legaly required to pay?
No?
So why should anyone else?

Tax evasion is illegaly not paying tax owed.
Tax avoidance is following the law.

Would it be possible to make all companies pay tax on the profit they make in the UK regardless of where the company is listed or where their HQ is registered?

Thats already the case.
The Guardianista arguement is that companies should pay tax on profits generated outside the country.[/quote]

[JavaScriptDonkey]

TB
Thats already the case.
The Guardianista arguement is that companies should pay tax on profits generated outside the country.

I think that is already the case. Usain Bolt was the famous refusnik at the 2010 Crystal Palace Grand Prix as the UK tax man wanted to take a share of his non-UK earned income.

[biffvernon]

British justice? http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/2 ... ster-riots

[stumuzz]

Absolutely. He was freed.

[biffvernon]

After nine days of appalling treatment and his home destroyed. British justice, pah!

[MrG]

I was out of the country for the entirety of this and let me tell you I was shocked to see it on sky news as I was sitting eating my breakfast! I thought 'Shit this is it'.. TSHTF as they say.

Especially as I was in the middle of this

http://allafrica.com/stories/201108091167.html

which was f***ing chaos I tell thee and very eye opening and scary to someone of a PO mindset.

Very interesting to read all your opinions of what was going on. Steve goop post (the first long one especially).

As to whether this qualifies as an Alex Scarrow event - which was what I thought when I first saw the news... especially as I say as all I could see at the time was people queing for fuel... anyway..

I think it's worth remembering that altough people may not have been in the main looting food, that doesn't mean they aren't looting in some sense for basic nececcities. Just because they aren't stealing basic neccesities

for example Dom I think you contradict yourself here

I dont believe we just saw an "alex scarrow event".

The looters were scum who wanted sportswear and games consoles, not ordinary people who wanted food. Although apparently there were families out looting Lidls.

So far there have been 1,500 arrests.
So lets say say 15,000 people took part?

Now imagine next time, there are 150,000 people taking part, and they arent after some trainers, they are after food for their starving children.

Wasn't it you earlier in the thread who points out... what is the point in trying to nick off with a 5kg bag of potatoes when 5kg of electronic goods will buy you many many sacks of potatoes. You were in fact I believe the only person on the thread to make this fairly obvious point and you were quite right to do so.

I think people are taking what they think they can sell and are doing it because they are being squeezed in every direction. Of course they'd never get anything like the ticket price for their knock offs in normal times and now other every rude boy in london has got a flat full of knocked off nikes and digital camera's they'll get even less for it... so the one's looting lidl are the smart ones.

The pharmacy also had its windows caved in, but I don't know what (if anything) was looted from there.

Oh please! Diazepam, Tamezepam, Oramorph, Methadone even... stuff they can sell

Anyway that's an aside.. this isn't an Alex Scarrow event in the classic sense because food is still available in the shops, the cash machines still work etc. But I guess this is realistically what we should of expected to happen first. Life is starting to get hard for a lot of people. Living on benefits is one thing. But doing it in London. The difference between this and Last Light is there is still a functioning system in which to try and offload the consumer tat in return for money which can still be exchanged for all lifes neccesities.

It also gives us a taste of how badly things are going to unravel if there is some kind of disruption to essential services such as that imagined by Scarrow. And in that situation I guess people will still do the same at first (loot useless junk) because they think the power will come back on, everything will go back to normal and they be able to sell off the flat screen tv's (just as in the book).

For the first few nights in Last Light there is the assumption by those causing the choas that things will return to normal and they are enjoying their day of freedom from law enforcment while they can. It sounds like this is exactly what has just happened in London and that's why they steal nikes when they can't eat nikes because they expect everything to return to normal (well it has) and they then expect to be able to sell nikes and then buy... food, nappies, baby milk, alcohol, fags, drugs, rent, petrol, credit for the electric meter... whatever

[Lord Beria3]

Agreed - best analysis with the similarities with Scarrows Last Light.

[biffvernon]

I was in the middle of this

http://allafrica.com/stories/201108091167.html

Interesting. I guess we don't often see the gentle squeeze on oil supplies in Africa. We've been of the bumpy peak plateau for six years, the BRICS growing rapidly, the west grinding to a halt. Somebody, somewhere is going to have to be using less.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Agreed - best analysis with the similarities with Scarrows Last Light.

+1

That's what I was driving at. Anyway, where's Mr Scarrow himself when you need him?

[jonny2mad]

yup good analysis mrG

I'd also note how poorly the shops were defended by their owners who have had generations of being told not to arm themselves, to not fight back and basically be passive victims, also how badly you do when you depend on the police when they are over stretched .

Some community's did try to defend their property but lots didn't and to celebrate the community clearing up after their shops have been looted I'd say was celebrating failure in the first place .

you can expect people to defend their shops just as badly the next time Ive seen no real change .