I predict a riot!!!

[DominicJ]

Just think, if the police had smashed the riot on the first night, the fourth night wouldnt have happened, the shorts would never have been stolen, the woman would never have received them, and the children wouldnt now be missing a mother.

But nope, the only reason anyone copuld possibly have wanted a firm line taken on day one is because they are mail reading racists.....

[UndercoverElephant]

Just think, if the police had smashed the riot on the first night, the fourth night wouldnt have happened, the shorts would never have been stolen, the woman would never have received them, and the children wouldnt now be missing a mother.

But nope, the only reason anyone copuld possibly have wanted a firm line taken on day one is because they are mail reading racists.....

There weren't enough police on duty, too many were on holiday and there was too much happening for them to keep up. They were taken by surprise.

And by the way...the police have made their own job more difficult by destroying the public's faith in their judgement. The unprovoked fatal attack on Ian Tomlinson (just one example) was the action of a mindless thug in police uniform, but the consequences for future policing was profound. This action makes it much harder for the police to do their job properly, because once public trust is lost it is very hard to recover. The IPCC makes the problem even worse, since it nearly always sides with the police, even when they are totally in the wrong. One example that comes to mind from a few years back was the guy in Hastings who was shot dead in his bed, naked and unarmed, and it turned out the police were at the wrong address. Did the IPCC send any coppers to jail for this manslaughter/murder? Nope.

[featherstick]

I've long said that senior management of many police services seem to be on a mission to discredit their own role and to lose the trust of the law-abiding majority. It's not just the role of the IPCC, or the inevitable spin and lies when a copper screws up, or the attempts to discredit the victims of their mistakes. It's also about how policing is reported. The Kingsnorth protests here in Kent were largely good-natured and trouble-free, but the coppers reported up to 80 coppers injured while policing them, with the implication that these injuries were due to protestors. FoI requests showed that the "injuries" were in fact sunburn, twisted ankles, a wasp-sting, a barbed-wire snag - nothing more serious than I might expect up the allotment. Result - more loss of confidence in the police.

[DominicJ]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ia ... heritance/

Back on angry kids....

[jonny2mad]

Magistrates are being advised by the courts service to disregard normal sentencing guidelines when dealing with those convicted of offences committed in the context of last week's riots.

The advice, given in open court by justices' clerks, will result in cases that would usually be disposed of in magistrates courts being referred to the crown court for more severe punishment.

It may explain why some of those convicted have received punitive sentences for offences that might normally attract a far shorter term.

In Manchester a mother of two, Ursula Nevin, was jailed for five months for receiving a pair of shorts given to her after they had been looted from a city centre store. In Brixton, south London, a 23-year-old student was jailed for six months for stealing £3.50 worth of water bottles from a supermarket.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/1 ... sentencing

Traditionally you declare martial law and hang or shoot looters on sight, personally I would let shop owners shoot looters who attack their stores and if I had a store or had close kin that had a store Id have been armed in my property to defend it .

In the la riots the people who sat in the doorways of their stores with a ar15 didn't have their stores looted or burned down, some got into gunfights with gangbangers but I think thats better than meekly letting yourself be robbed

Personally I think you have a innate right to defend your property much as you do your life, people spend years of their lives building up assets they exchange part of their life for those assets and its like partly murdering them, If the law tells me I cant defend my property and I have to let some son of a bitch burn it down, I'm going to ignore that law, and I'd prefer to be later jailed, but I wont willingly stand aside .

[biffvernon]

Traditionally you declare martial law and hang or shoot looters on sight

Fortunately that has never been a tradition in the United Kingdom. The rest of your post might be construed as inciting violence. A bad.

[biffvernon]

Of course rioting has a certain tradition. This from 1830:

DISTURBANCES at NORTH WALSHAM: The District has been considerably disturbed during the week. Large parties of Labourers assembled chiefly at night for the purposes of breaking threshing machines. In the course of Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday nights 10 Premises had Machines broken. 16 Persons arrested & taken to Norwich Castle.
Monday, 22 Nov: Threshing Machines of Messrs Hill, Harvey, Lunnis & Williamson of Briston & Mr Margetson of Thurning were destroyed.
Fire at Premises of Mr Batley at Thorpe. Hay Stacks destroyed. Simultaneous haystack fire at Mousehold.
Fears of an attack on Melton Constable Hall, Residence of Sir Jacob Astley.
Mob broke machines at Hindolveston. Leaders were seized. 8 of them were secured and taken to Walsingham Bridewell for the night and Norwich Castle next day.
Tuesday & Wednesday 23 & 23 November: Threshing Machines broken at Causton, Oulton, Blickling, Scottow, North Walsham, Dilham, Harling Walcott & Happisburgh. On Thursday 16 Rioters taken to Norwich Castle, but “similar outrages” were committeed at Hockering, nr Dereham & other places in vicinity on same day.
Wednesday evening: Fire at premises of Mr Barnes of beeston. Hay stacks set alight.
Friday: A number of Special Constables were sworn in on Friday to help keep down disorders. Sir Jacob Astley was pelted with stones on way to Magistrate’s Meeting.
Friday morning : Fire at Mr Warren’s Farm, Caister Hall.
Saturday afternoon: several 100s attacked Paper Mills at Tavenham, completely destroying machinery.
Sunday night: Attempt on premises of Mr Gibert of Postwihck.
Three Fires on Saturday & Sunday in the West of theCounty: Mr Goddersons of Harpley, Mr Wright’s of Ringstead, Mr Waites of Rougham.
Monday: 600-700 weavers assembled at St Catherine’s Plain were addressed by a few of their number, went away peacefully, but reassembled on Green’s Hill, St Augustine’s in afternoon to receive a reply to an application for an increase of wages made to the manufacturers..
On Monday during Magistrates of Smithdon Hundreds were sitting at Docking a large amount of Rioters assembled. Conflict in Street in which Capt Davy (a Magistrate) was knocked out. Three were imprisoned (of the most disorderly)
Monday Morning: A party went to Mr Wright’ of Mainford to break the Machinery. They were met by Mr Wrights Waten 2 caught, 5 escaped.
Monday also saw universal uprising at Blakeney, Cley, Salthouse, Kelling, Weyborne, Bamingham & Bodham for an advance of wages.
Plans by different Magistrates discussed during the week as to how to combat disturbances eg Special Constables at Eyensford Hundred. Also agreement to empoy labourers at 12s a week for married men, 10s a week for single or a taskwork system enabling an “industrious man” to earn 15s a week.
On Thursday & Friday labourers met in & about Reepham “from which place Sir Jacob Astley and a few of his Friends were forced to retreat under a shower of stones.”
On Monday a large body of men destroyed the threshing macine of Mr Salter of Whinbergh & Mr Gall? of Yaxham.
On Tuesday morning 300-400 destroyed a number of machines near Shipham
On Saturday morning a Barn Fire at Mr Read’s of Lingwood.
Edmund Woodhouse letter for Committee of Magistrates appointed to concert measures for the Preservation of the Peace of the County. Recommend General disuse of Threshing Macines
NORTH WALSHAM DISTURBANCES continue with breaking Threshing Machines.
RIOTS in NORFOLK etc: Long account under Norfolk
MEETING of MAGISTRATES at Hackford next Reepham .. agree not to make use of Threshing Machines on our own occupation ... strongly recommend the discontinuance of them to all persons within our own respective limits of influence.

TITHE RIOT: On Tuesday the Poor of Haddiscoe & Toft assembled at Tithe Audit of Rev Ellison & demanded a reduction of Tithes. Rev Ellison would not agree. They broke into the Dining Room & took possession of all that was provided for the Tithe Feast & so ill-treated Rev Ellison that he was compelled to yield to their demands
TITHE RIOT: The same day the unemployed Poor of Ringsfield assembled & came to theTithe Audit of Rev G Leathes, which was held in Beccles & demanded a reduction of his Tithe & the worthy Rector agreed to reduce them 20% in addition to 10% deducted last year & the mob quietly dispersed to their homes.

[DominicJ]

Biff, I just dont get how anyone can possibly have such an oversized ego as yours, and be so ignorant about virtualy everything.

The Riot act, once read and in force, allowed ANYONE enforcing it to kill ANYONE refusing to comply with their instructions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Riot_Act

Anyone assisting with the dispersal was specifically indemnified against any legal consequences in the event of any of the crowd being injured or killed.

No doubt I can now expect another PM telling me to stop being rude.

Frame Breaking was also a capital offence, and many frame breakers were executed for it, many more were transported, and who knows how many were merely killed out of hand.

[jonny2mad]

well biff you can be damn sure there wont be a store in this country that wont be looted and burned down, the people who come through that will have a harder attitude

And traditionally in this country most people were armed and would fight you if you tried to steal off them they were xenophobic and tribal and pretty violent , people traditionally walked about with swords and bows, being armed and willing to fight people when they tried stealing off you was considered normal .

your a blip, a blip from a rich fat time with a powerful state

[Ludwig]

The Kingsnorth protests here in Kent were largely good-natured and trouble-free, but the coppers reported up to 80 coppers injured while policing them, with the implication that these injuries were due to protestors. FoI requests showed that the "injuries" were in fact sunburn, twisted ankles, a wasp-sting, a barbed-wire snag - nothing more serious than I might expect up the allotment. Result - more loss of confidence in the police.

How depressing, though hardly surprising. It's sad that we have no choice but to rely on these scum to protect us.

[DominicJ]

Perhaps we could elect sherrifs who could toss out the dross....

[jonny2mad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkCU_-0v4OY future riots in the UK well Koreans in la but they have the right idea somewhat although they would do better with more training and better weapons

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Biff, I just dont get how anyone can possibly have such an oversized ego as yours, and be so ignorant about virtualy everything.

No doubt I can now expect another PM telling me to stop being rude.

That would be a waste of time.

[Ludwig]

Just reading the headlines about tougher policing of riots (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14538252)... If these riots weren't an orchestrated trial run for the food riots starting next year, nevertheless they couldn't have come at a more opportune time for the Government to get the public onside for "tougher" policing.

Personally, I would be happy in principle for looters to be shot, because the alternative of the total collapse of the rule of law would be far worse, despite what a few idealists here think.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2011/08/10/man ... /?pid=4996