The ethics of having children in a Post-peak world

[UndercoverElephant]

The right to life 'at any cost' is a very recent notion and one that can not possibly be supported as the majority approach their 90's and 100's. Dribbling into senility.

The same may eventually apply to seriously handicapped infants. For nearly all of human history, society simply could not afford to maintain any "passengers." How many disabled Amazonian tribespersons have you ever seen?

[UndercoverElephant]

Minister says people need to save more for retirement as figures suggest at least half a million will be aged over 100 by 2066http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/04/20-ye ... y-live-100

There is just no way this is going to happen in reality. The pace of change is accelerating and one way or another die off is likely, be it through collapse, lack of resources or people deciding that 100 is just no fun. Watching yourself fall apart at the seams aint great. Most likely the right to expire when and if you wish will be passed for economic and social reasons. Lets hope.

[DominicJ]

Cant vouch for the accuracy, but I've been told, even as late as the 70's, seriously disabled babies would taken away by the nurses, and the mother told "it died"

[jonny2mad]

well as I pointed out before all you noble sacrificers are just going to be displaced by Somalis etc etc who we are still bringing into the uk and europe at a terrific rate, and are unlikely to choose your silly path to self destruction of their genes .
Is it ethical to have children yes, then those children will have to do the natural thing and compete for resources, the strong and lucky will survive .

All life is struggle thats how its meant to be

Not going to happen mate. We will close the borders at some point and turn the military on Third World migrants.

Simple as that. Ethical? No, but a angry British people will vote in a party prepared to implement such a draconian solution to our immigration problem.

looking at your thread I predict a riot, that was after the police shot one guy can you imagine what would happen if you planned to take out large sections of the population and ship them out .

You have the third world migrants you have people who are friends and who are married to them, you have the people like biff who want a world with no borders basically you would have the start of a civil war where I'd guess the white population would be pretty divided .

And if your going to start shipping people off where doe's that end, I really don't see that happening not in a near orderly way.

[DominicJ]

Managed it well in enough in the rest of the world often enough....

What do you think would hasve happened last night if 2Para were sent out with orders to crush the riot by any means....

[UndercoverElephant]

What do you think would have happened last night if 2Para were sent out with orders to crush the riot by any means....

They would have crushed it. And tonight there would be riots in every city and large town in the UK.

I think you underestimate the strength of the British "constitution." We don't take that sort of shit. We take other sorts of shit, but not that sort.

I don't believe the British army would follow orders to put down riots across the country Syria-style, and I don't believe any British government would issue those orders either. And if I'm wrong about this, I think it would be more likely to end in a civil war than strict martial law.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Managed it well in enough in the rest of the world often enough....

What do you think would hasve happened last night if 2Para were sent out with orders to crush the riot by any means....

"That's not a legal order, Sarge." Said Private Snooks, who wisely opted for 28 days in the guardroom instead.

[Ludwig]

What do you think would have happened last night if 2Para were sent out with orders to crush the riot by any means....

They would have crushed it. And tonight there would be riots in every city and large town in the UK.

I think you underestimate the strength of the British "constitution." We don't take that sort of shit. We take other sorts of shit, but not that sort.

I don't believe the British army would follow orders to put down riots across the country Syria-style, and I don't believe any British government would issue those orders either. And if I'm wrong about this, I think it would be more likely to end in a civil war than strict martial law.

It's nothing to do with the British "constitution", it's to do with what we're used to.

Once riots become frequent, people will lose their sympathy with the rioters rather quickly.

When it's one's own local shops being raided and buildings in one's own neighbourhood being burned, I'm not sure most people will really care about the level of force used to crush the riots.

[DominicJ]

And tonight there would be riots in every city and large town in the UK.

Staged by who?
The Guardianistas are just noisey, they arent numerous.

The Sun doesnt seem to be taking a hardline against the government and in support of the rioters.

If an authoritarian government was elected on the premise that it would expel those who have failed to emmigrate, why do you think the people who elected said would riot when artilery was used on Bradford?

[UndercoverElephant]

And tonight there would be riots in every city and large town in the UK.

Staged by who?
The Guardianistas are just noisey, they arent numerous.

Not stages by Guardian readers, no. Although they might join in. It would be staged by disenfranchised youths who have nothing much left to lose and who respect nobody/nothing.

If an authoritarian government was elected on the premise that it would expel those who have failed to emmigrate, why do you think the people who elected said would riot when artilery was used on Bradford?

I'm skeptical that an authoritarian government will be elected in the first place. How, exactly, is that supposed to happen under British FPTP?

[DominicJ]

Do you think the people who live and work in tooting/enfield/brixton want the thugs shot or listened too?

It wasnt David Camerons car that was set on fire.
It was Dave the Builders car, he cant get to work today, so he doesnt get paid. His insurance wont pay out for weeks, so he needs to borrow money, and expensive rates, to buy another car.
Thats his holiday gone this year.

So yes, I believe he will vote for the String Them Up Party.
Be that Blue, Red, Purple, or even Red, white and blue.

[UndercoverElephant]

Do you think the people who live and work in tooting/enfield/brixton want the thugs shot or listened too?

Depends whether they would accept your loaded definition "thug."

Most people under the age of 25 have been totally shafted by the older generations. Do we expect them to just shut up and accept this? Do we expect them to ask us nicely to fix the problems we have created? If I was them, I'd be looting jewelry stores too.

[DominicJ]

Do we expect them to just shut up and accept this?

Yes, the adults expect the young adults to shut up and accept it.

Do we expect them to ask us nicely to fix the problems we have created?

Adults probably dont expect the younger adults to fix problems, just accept that they will pay taxes to fund their elders pensions, but not recevie a pension themselves.

80% of the NHS budget is spent on people who die within two years, but palliative care for the elderly is sacred cow territory.

If I was them, I'd be looting jewellery stores too.

So would I, but theres a short window for the sensible to exploit.
Between when the police lose control, and either the army regains it by shooting anyone who disagrees or the governments accepts loss of control and the jewelry stores pull out.

The Government will invoke war powers and kill thousands of that is what is required to secure the capital.
Yorkshire will likely be abandoned and left to fend for itself.

[Ludwig]

Do you think the people who live and work in tooting/enfield/brixton want the thugs shot or listened too?

Depends whether they would accept your loaded definition "thug."

Most people under the age of 25 have been totally shafted by the older generations. Do we expect them to just shut up and accept this? Do we expect them to ask us nicely to fix the problems we have created? If I was them, I'd be looting jewellery stores too.

Can't help but wonder, UE, if you'd be saying the same if it had been your stash of silver and gold that had been stolen over the weekend.

[UndercoverElephant]

Do you think the people who live and work in tooting/enfield/brixton want the thugs shot or listened too?

Depends whether they would accept your loaded definition "thug."

Most people under the age of 25 have been totally shafted by the older generations. Do we expect them to just shut up and accept this? Do we expect them to ask us nicely to fix the problems we have created? If I was them, I'd be looting jewellery stores too.

Can't help but wonder, UE, if you'd be saying the same if it had been your stash of silver and gold that had been stolen over the weekend.

My gold and silver isn't hidden in a shop window.

I am not saying I am looking forward to civil disorder and looting. I'm just saying that we have created a totally disenfranchised generation, and that if I was in their position I would also seriously consider violent, anarchistic protest. You've already accepted that there is going to be violent protest. All I am saying is that it will be led by the disenfranchised youth, who have no reason to give a shit about the people who've disenfranchised them.