Oblivious!!

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 27 Jul 2011, 10:07

Maybe there are more people preparing than we know about, just doing it quietly so as not to let the cat out before they're settled.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 27 Jul 2011, 10:40

Catweazle wrote:Maybe there are more people preparing than we know about, just doing it quietly so as not to let the cat out before they're settled.

Maybe, but I doubt it. It's not just that most people don't know what is actually going down, but that most of them don't even want to know. The only people I know who are "preparing" tend to be retired people who have decided to start spending their savings on things like solar panels - and this is mainly because they're sick of those savings returning no interest from bank accounts. They've effectively been forced to spend it on something, and they've noticed what is happening to their utility bills. Might as well invest in something which will push up the value of their houses. These are also the same people who know what "post-war austerity" means.

Doris · Post by **Doris** » 27 Jul 2011, 19:54

I am in the quietly preparing brigade, by that i mean i am trying to prepare my children for the fact that thier life is not always going to be how it is now. Things are not going to be so easily accessible and as a family we talk about the pro's and con's of having all the latest gadgets that everyone else has! Luckily we don't have the finances to be keeping up with the "Jones's" even if we were so inclined, don't get me wrong we have an wii and the boys have nintendo ds's but they are children you cannot deny them everything, but they also know how to build and light a fire, how to chop wood and they are actively involved in the veg plot and sorting the fruit trees, skills that i hope will help them in the future.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 27 Jul 2011, 20:42

Doris wrote:I am in the quietly preparing brigade, by that i mean i am trying to prepare my children for the fact that thier life is not always going to be how it is now. Things are not going to be so easily accessible and as a family we talk about the pro's and con's of having all the latest gadgets that everyone else has! Luckily we don't have the finances to be keeping up with the "Jones's" even if we were so inclined, don't get me wrong we have an wii and the boys have nintendo ds's but they are children you cannot deny them everything, but they also know how to build and light a fire, how to chop wood and they are actively involved in the veg plot and sorting the fruit trees, skills that i hope will help them in the future.

I hope there's lots like you. I suspect there's not that many...

postie · Post by **postie** » 28 Jul 2011, 00:00

UndercoverElephant wrote: I hope there's lots like you. I suspect there's not that many...

Probably not.. but maybe more than we'd estimate...

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 28 Jul 2011, 10:01

Doris wrote:I am in the quietly preparing brigade, by that i mean i am trying to prepare my children for the fact that thier life is not always going to be how it is now. Things are not going to be so easily accessible and as a family we talk about the pro's and con's of having all the latest gadgets that everyone else has! Luckily we don't have the finances to be keeping up with the "Jones's" even if we were so inclined, don't get me wrong we have an wii and the boys have nintendo ds's but they are children you cannot deny them everything, but they also know how to build and light a fire, how to chop wood and they are actively involved in the veg plot and sorting the fruit trees, skills that i hope will help them in the future.

Those youngsters might not appreciate what you're trying to do right now but they will! Good on you and good luck to you all.

MrG · Post by **MrG** » 28 Jul 2011, 11:04

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Doris wrote:I am in the quietly preparing brigade, by that i mean i am trying to prepare my children for the fact that thier life is not always going to be how it is now. Things are not going to be so easily accessible and as a family we talk about the pro's and con's of having all the latest gadgets that everyone else has! Luckily we don't have the finances to be keeping up with the "Jones's" even if we were so inclined, don't get me wrong we have an wii and the boys have nintendo ds's but they are children you cannot deny them everything, but they also know how to build and light a fire, how to chop wood and they are actively involved in the veg plot and sorting the fruit trees, skills that i hope will help them in the future.
I hope there's lots like you. I suspect there's not that many...

I think you might be suprised UE. I looked at Doris's post and just thought 'yeah I did all that as a kid (except the computer games) and I just thought that was normal'. My friends that have got kids they (mostly) do the same and they don't accept peak oil (the ones that I've even tried to tell about it) so they aren't on the internet talking about it.

I've got quite a few friends who have lifestyles which most peakers would consider fairly hardcore "preparations" but they aren't "preparations" because they aren't preparing for anything because they mostly haven't heard of peak oil (doing really well at spreading the message aren't I!).

To take an example the people who I'm helping restore their orchard have.. well half an acre of orchard.. and a massive veg plot.. and chickens.. all that. They also have a concealed room in the f***ed old house which they live outside of JohnB style. And in the run up to the saudi day of rage I was getting just a teansy bit paranoid and showed my true tinfoil hat wearing colours by suggesting we start stocking the concealed room with food.

They were totally shocked!! The point is they live that way because they want to not because they think the worlds coming to an end. I know a few people who live off grid as well and they aren't on the internet talking about WTSHTF because.. they aren't on the internet!! and they don't think the worlds coming to an end anyway.

Selection bias though isn't it. You associate with people (mostly.. the fecking mrs excepted) that share your views about the world. Still in a minority, most people do justy want bigger, better, faster, more

MrG · Post by **MrG** » 28 Jul 2011, 11:18

Oh yeah I looked at your website BTW and yeah off season 'see what you find' thing sounds like a good idea. Not going to be in brighton at the end of the month any more though. Another time though.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 28 Jul 2011, 16:51

One thing that should raise some hope is that there are always more "guests" online on this board than registered users by a factor of about four. So, we are not alone by any means.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 28 Jul 2011, 17:06

but ho wmany of the guests are posters who haven't bothered to log in recently?

the_lyniezian · Post by **the_lyniezian** » 28 Jul 2011, 21:08

RalphW wrote:but ho wmany of the guests are posters who haven't bothered to log in recently?

They're probably all me.

Seriously, I only log in when I want to, and find it hard to contribute with all the doomerism around (secretly, I probably believe much of it, UE's 2012ism notwithstanding).

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 29 Jul 2011, 00:26

I've been looking at smallholdings recently and noticed that a lot of "equestrian" properties are for sale. One estate agent commented that nobody wanted them for horses any more, everyone wants to be more self-suficient instead.

I think the trend is just beginning, soon loads of people will be looking for houses with land. The message is getting through.

People are starting to prepare. My local garden centre states that in recent years the sales of vegetable seeds have overtaken flower seeds by a huge margin.

In 5 years ( or possibly much less ) we will see the same thing happening to smallholdings as we have seen to woodland - prices will double or more - as people realise the true value of food and warmth.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 29 Jul 2011, 03:57

the_lyniezian wrote:
RalphW wrote:but ho wmany of the guests are posters who haven't bothered to log in recently?
They're probably all me.

Seriously, I only log in when I want to, and find it hard to contribute with all the doomerism around (secretly, I probably believe much of it, UE's 2012ism notwithstanding).

My browser logs me in automatically.

As I write this there is one registered user and 39 guests.

Re Catweazle, my local garden centre reports a similar thing with seed purchases. It's noticeable how the space given to veggies and flower seeds has changed as well to the veggies advantage, even in the DIY sheds.

MrG · Post by **MrG** » 29 Jul 2011, 11:11

Yep people are responding in a logical way to increasing food and fuel prices (well I never). This is because contrary to the popular belief on peak oil websites people (whether PO aware or not) aren't all stupid.

That's one thing that has always annoyed me about the online PO 'community', the assumption that those who haven't 'joined the dots' are stupid sheeple. I have to say I fu**ing hate the term 'sheeple' because it is unbelievably condescending. Altough I also have to admit it very well sums up a certain type of person

ANYWAY. Not going to moan about it, just pointing it out. It's this sort of thing that gives credence to the likes of RGR calling peak oil a 'cult'. So if you don't like him saying that....

I get the general impression though talking to people who aren't aware of PO but also aren't stupid sheeple, that there is a a general acceptance of the idea that food and energy prices are always on the increase. And furthermore that partial self sufficieny makes practical sense. I'd almost go as far as saying that it's becoming ingrained in a lot of peoples minds as being as axiomatic as the (very british and somewhat ridiculous) idea that house prices will always increase.

When I hear people saying these sorts of things I generally jump in with both feet joining the dots and I generally find that there is a refusal to believe in one overarching principle that ties everything together. That's kind of understandable I guess. The world is complicated, it's messy right. We generally believe that events are the the result of a complex interplay of different factors. We're right to think this way, it's true. But of course there is one set of principles that underlie every natural phenomenon on this planet. Not just on this planet but every observable phenomena in the universe. Those are the laws of thermodynamics.

With my friends that already accept the above (and my mum actually) I'm gradually chipping away at the bigger picture, it's all about energy thing and I think I'm actually getting somewhere

MrG · Post by **MrG** » 29 Jul 2011, 11:16

Catweazle

That's very interesting what you say about smallholdings.. and the 'equestrian' land. After all what is a paddock but a 'small field' which it is assumed will be used for horsey purposes as very few practice small scale farming in the uk.

By the time I get myself in a position to get some land it'll be much harder than it is now.. maybe I should get off my arse and try find some really well paid job!

Hmm every fibre of my being says NO! f**k all that shit