Nuclear accident follows Japanese earthqauke

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 08 Jun 2011, 00:07

Sad.

Is Japan really as screwed as it seems? I mean Tokyo is so massive.......

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 08 Jun 2011, 04:22

From one of the comments on the video

That model of geiger counter is a good standard one, it is a little slower but it is as accurate as the others I have seen, I also have some videos from earlier this week that I made with two different geiger counters. The other one I use is a TERRA-P from the Ukraine, its faster but they both get the same readings. I think the best one is the Inspector Detector because it also reads alpha radiation too.

We could use that here!!

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 08 Jun 2011, 07:25

I'd be very wary of actual numbers on these hand held Geiger counters. They are notoriously dodgey and ones that read alpha are very fragile - they have to have a very thin membrane to let the alpha particles in - so are really lab equipment rather than for wandering round the street.

The point about the video is that the reading changes so much from a metre or two in the air to down on the ground in the gutter where cesium could concentrate and small children could play.

Once the government acknowledges reality then teams of civil defence folk can get mobilised with counters and clean-up equipment. 'Tis best t'were done quickly.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 08 Jun 2011, 07:52

Here's the new Japanese Government report:

http://min.us/mvoVGLP

Report of Japanese Government to the IAEA Ministerial Conference on Nuclear Safety
June 2011

Post by **adam2** » 08 Jun 2011, 08:42

biffvernon wrote:I'd be very wary of actual numbers on these hand held Geiger counters. They are notoriously dodgey and ones that read alpha are very fragile - they have to have a very thin membrane to let the alpha particles in - so are really lab equipment rather than for wandering round the street.

The point about the video is that the reading changes so much from a metre or two in the air to down on the ground in the gutter where cesium could concentrate and small children could play.

Once the government acknowledges reality then teams of civil defence folk can get mobilised with counters and clean-up equipment. 'Tis best t'were done quickly.

Agree, I have several hand held Geiger counters.
Such instruments can be useful for determining if an area is reasonably safe or not, or whether foodstuffs are fit for consumption or not.
No great accuracy can be claimed, the reading varies a fair bit dependant on exactly when and where measured.

If fallout is a cause for concern, but not immediatly highly dangerous, then it is well to be aware of where radioactive materials tend to concentrate.
As posted above, radioactive particles tend to be washed from the air by rain, and therefore rainwater drains, gutters and the like tend to be more radioactive than the suroundings in general.
Any mud, silt, or other debris that builds up in the traps of drains would likely be dangerously radioactive. The "non digestible solids" that build up in sewage works would likwise be potentialy hazardous.

Any radioactive particles in the air, would be at least partialy removed by filters and trapped in or on the used filters.
Following any incident, used air filters from air conditioning plants, engines, and the like should be tested if possible, and if not tested should be treated with great suspicion.

General dirt and dust may be radioactive, and any concentration of such dirt (as may be found when emptying a vacuum cleaner for instance) should be treated with care.

Fast growing edible plants may be radioactive, and in case of long lived isotopes, the risks may be increased by eating animals that have grazed on these plants.

Ippoippo · Post by **Ippoippo** » 08 Jun 2011, 13:18

biffvernon wrote:Whoops...sorry

Here it really is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9a0Q1v9 ... dded#at=13

(Exciting, wasn't it?)

Taken from near where I used to live in Japan (Matsudo)

Kashiwa is about 10 minutes by train further NE, and about 40 minutes from the centre of Tokyo by train.
Technically, it's outside Tokyo, but it's all one big suburban sprawl out that far.

mr brightside · Post by **mr brightside** » 08 Jun 2011, 13:30

biffvernon wrote:Once the government acknowledges reality then teams of civil defence folk can get mobilised with counters and clean-up equipment. 'Tis best t'were done quickly.

I wonder what Govt. press releases will describe it as; "a routine drainage inspection and cleaning", "a minor periodic inspection of street furniture for radioactive material"? Perhaps we need a Tepco to English dictionary, a bit like the Castleford to English dictionary but with the bull$**t filter set to maximum.

Hydrogen explosion- "Unplanned pressure release" Stroll on.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 08 Jun 2011, 14:07

mr brightside wrote:I wonder what Govt. press releases will describe it as; "a routine drainage inspection and cleaning"

reminds me of...

Spike Milligan, a long time ago, wrote: -I'm an Inspector!
-Oh yes...the drains! This way...
-No, a Police Inspector. I only inspect Police

mr brightside · Post by **mr brightside** » 10 Jun 2011, 12:22

RenewableCandy wrote:
Spike Milligan wrote: -I'm an Inspector!
-Oh yes...the drains! This way...
-No, a Police Inspector. I only inspect Police

I'm not familiar with Spike Milligan sketches, i like Python stuff though...

-This stray dog is dead
-No it's not, it's just depressed
-Yes it is, it is a radioactive ex-dog!

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 10 Jun 2011, 15:32

mr brightside wrote:I'm not familiar with Spike Milligan sketches,

Try any one of these:-

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... =goon+show

This is a good example of Spike's circular logic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rOjiAyv0Dg

lurker · Post by **lurker** » 11 Jun 2011, 10:02

http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201106070178.html

Radioactive sewage sludge is quickly filling up treatment facilities in eastern Japan as recycling companies have refused to accept it for safety reasons.

Also

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/06/now- ... on-in.html

Funny idea in the comments here :

back an aircraft carrier up to the site and lasso each of the reactor vessels in turn with the anchor chain and pull them all into the sea, deep enough to keep the rods cool. set up a remote desert island with a robotic dismemberment installation where the vessels can be cut open and the rods removed and spread out where they can temporarily remain safely. the remote island might have a central sea water bay to bring them to. not very good for the ocean, but better than the no-progress situation that has now gone on for months. tom l, retired structural engineer and naval architect. this has gotta be better than doing nothing, look what is at stake.

mr brightside · Post by **mr brightside** » 13 Jun 2011, 13:30

Officials believe that radioactive materials from the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant flowed into sewage pipes with rainwater and were condensed during sewage treatment.

In which case any surface run-off will be chemical waste then, and the contents of storm drains will need sampling for traces of nuclear material. How long before the water table is contaminated? What's the bedrock like in Japan? If it's dotted with cave systems like Limestone areas the strata will hold onto contaminated water and store it.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 14 Jun 2011, 20:55

Gradually, the data are being compiled:

http://maps.google.co.jp/maps/ms?ie=...257202&t=p&z=8

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 17 Jun 2011, 21:50

Al Jazeera telling it like it is:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/fe ... 02638.html

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 18 Jun 2011, 10:02

TEPCO have released this document: http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp...s/110617e4.pdf
that shows the scale and scope of the work in progress. It shows how the are clearing up the site, building new support structures for the spent fuel pool at #4 and preparing to build new covers for the reactor buildings.

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