Transition Town: a flawed self organising system?

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 01 Jun 2011, 18:58

Lord Beria3 wrote:So, although the TT movement on a small scale can do a lot of good, it wants to prepare the entire community it needs to go beyond what it is at the moment: a group of nice middle class eco-aware people.

In parts of the USA, Transition has been picked up by working class people.

Pepperman · Post by **Pepperman** » 01 Jun 2011, 19:26

lurker wrote:What is the most sucessful transition town in the UK & what have they achieved?

Maybe the movement is loosing steam beacuase BAU is still limping on so it lacks economic basis & can't florish on idealism alone.

Food & energy are still very cheap as a proportion of incomes & most UK people aren't into hard work unless its on a treadmill machine in a gym.

It's not losing steam at all as far as I know (although it would be nice if they could publish some stats on new initiatives). Totnes is far and away the most advanced with something like 30 projects underway and what appears to be a very talented bunch of people moving things forwards.

Beria - those points you make are absolutely right but don't think that people are blind to them. There is a lot of work going on to address those issues.

You have to bear in mind that transition is... 5 years old? People seem to think that it should have solved everything by now and as it hasn't it must be flawed or broken. I reckon that's testament to how much potential it has. Certainly it's a bit early to write it off.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 01 Jun 2011, 23:06

Greenpeace has not saved all the whales, FoE has not saved all the rainforests, Oxfam has not prevented all starvation, Amnesty has not released all political prisoners...and if your local Transition Initiative has not achieved all that it might perhaps it's because you have not joined it and worked successfully enough.

Attack those who are part of the problem, not those who are trying to be part of the solution.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » 01 Jun 2011, 23:50

Google trends suggest its at at plateau with regards to internet chatter. But thats more a measure of taking rather than the doing so a crude measure but it is interesting data imo.

Reading must be full of teh yoghurt weavers!

http://www.google.com/trends?q=transiti ... l&date=all

Hope there won't be a peak transition towns,as there has being in the peak oil trend

http://www.google.com/trends?q=peak+oil ... all&sort=0

New Zealand must be the world centre of peakers & transition towns. Maybe thats why its the doomstead location of choice in the small holding thread

energy-village · Post by **energy-village** » 02 Jun 2011, 00:08

I have been to TT meetings – and will go again. Some fine people there. But, a bit like a major flaw in democracy, there is a lot of focus on process and not enough on ends.

That’s OK in good times, but not WTSHTF and most people don’t have their basic needs met and there’s a lot of anarchy about. In such times robust solutions are needed, even if requires a dictatorship and a bloody axe to bring them about.

If it's not impolite for me to say such things (nervous cough).

Pepperman · Post by **Pepperman** » 02 Jun 2011, 05:16

energy-village wrote:I have been to TT meetings – and will go again. Some fine people there. But, a bit like a major flaw in democracy, there is a lot of focus on process and not enough on ends.

That’s OK in good times, but not WTSHTF and most people don’t have their basic needs met and there’s a lot of anarchy about. In such times robust solutions are needed, even if requires a dictatorship and a bloody axe to bring them about.

If it's not impolite for me to say such things (nervous cough).

Is it a relatively new TT? There is a lot of talking about climate change & po at the start which can put people off.

Personally I feel it's better to get some projects going immediately. But the thing with transition is that if you want it to change, initiate the change yourself. suggest a simple project or two to warm people up and help get it off the ground.

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 02 Jun 2011, 08:59

anyone have a link for woodcroft?

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 02 Jun 2011, 10:24

Bif - you make a fair point there.

After my brighton TT experience, I have been repelled by the entire movement, but as a TT has recently been created where I live, I may try it and see whether I like it.

Looks like they are doing a summer party, with a cycle cinema!

http://www.magnificentrevolution.org/ev ... le-cinema/

That does look amusing!

Anyway, back on subject, I have nothing wrong with TT myself, but my own experiences on this board has confirmed to me that if you do not fit the 'conventional' powerswitcher, than a certain nasty gang mentality can develop which I have suffered from.

Still, the crowd at my local one have a few funky young people involved, might be worth something...

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 02 Jun 2011, 10:34

http://transitionculture.org/2011/05/19 ... ransition/

Although it is peak oil and climate change that initially inspire Transition initiatives and form the underpinning for much of the initial awareness stage, might it be that an initiative reaches a point where continued focus on those issues could be counterproductive? His point is that most people have by now made up their mind as to whether they agree that peak oil and/or climate change are important issues or not. Beyond a certain point it could be that continued highlighting of the issues actually risks dividing and alienating people rather than including them?

At the moment, the outward focus of TTT’s work is more explicitly about economic regeneration and social enterprise, rather than on promoting the issues of peak oil and climate change. We are promoting the concept of ‘localisation as economic development’ and about to start work on an ‘Economic Blueprint’ for the town, working with the Town Council, Chamber of Commerce and other local bodies. We are seeking to support emerging social enterprises and to create new mechanisms for inward investment. While all of this, clearly, is underpinned by an understanding of peak oil and climate change, we haven’t actually held a talk about peak or climate change for a while.

1.Getting started: this is the beginning stage, where a group of people come together and form a group, inspired by the principles of Transition. They start awareness raising and networking in their community
2.Deepening: here they start to become ‘Transition wherever’, a recognised initiative which begins to embark on distinct projects as well as becoming more organised in how it works
3.Connecting: then they start to go deeper, reaching beyond the ‘usual suspects’ and deeper into the community
4.Building: this is about embarking on the practicalities of intentional localisation, thinking strategically about creating new institutions, new infrastructure and supporting the emergence of new enterprises that ground the concept of ‘localisation as economic development’ in the local economy
5.Daring to Dream: what would it look like if every community had a vibrant Transition initiative and they were all actively transforming their local economies? Here we step into the speculative and wonder about where all this could go.

Despite all the TT language, this is basically what I have been saying, at a certain point, stop talking about climate change/PO and focus on practical projects that reach beyond the 'usual suspects'!!

Clearly, there are some sensible folk in the TT movement

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 02 Jun 2011, 12:37

DominicJ wrote:anyone have a link for woodcroft?

http://www.woodcraft.org.uk/

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 02 Jun 2011, 15:05

Thanks Ralph, pretty much what I thought.
It has something transition towns lack, ownership.

Its easy to say "oh everyone owns it" but in reality, it just means no one does.
If my local transition town had 10 members, I could turn up with 11, vote out the current boss and have myself voted in as replacement.

It wouldnt be wrong to say you went on an "adventure holiday".....

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 02 Jun 2011, 15:18

Of course it was a holiday.

It is meant to be a 'youth movement'. It is simply a bunch of parents getting together and deciding to do some of their parenting in a more cooperative and structured environment. The kids see it as entertainment, for the parents so it as part of the parenting process, part of teaching children to behave more cooperatively and less selfishly. The eco/sustainability/lefty/peace movement stuff is mostly just a little local colour. It is very liberal 'touchy/feely' but backed up with sanctions if necessary.

That is why the big age divide on the iphone/ipod debate. The kids don't realise they are being brainwashed (parented). The parents know that if the kids can communicate with the outside world, there is no way they can be controlled on site.

Woodcraft kids have historically grown up to be significant members of society.

energy-village · Post by **energy-village** » 02 Jun 2011, 15:59

Pepperman wrote:
energy-village wrote:I have been to TT meetings – and will go again. Some fine people there. But, a bit like a major flaw in democracy, there is a lot of focus on process and not enough on ends.
Is it a relatively new TT? There is a lot of talking about climate change & po at the start which can put people off.

Personally I feel it's better to get some projects going immediately. But the thing with transition is that if you want it to change, initiate the change yourself. suggest a simple project or two to warm people up and help get it off the ground.

It's existed for quite a while now and concrete things have been achieved, I shouldn't be grumbling. I would encourage anybody and everybody to get involved. I certainly could do more – and will.

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 02 Jun 2011, 16:52

DominicJ wrote:If my local transition town had 10 members, I could turn up with 11, vote out the current boss and have myself voted in as replacement.

That's why making decisions by consensus is so good. Everyone has a chance to have their say, and the pushy people have less of an advantage.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 03 Jun 2011, 22:01

Welcome Transition Albania: http://tranzicionshqiperi.wordpress.com/