The RGR rebuttal to PowerSwitch users thread.

RGR · Post by **RGR** » 31 May 2011, 14:28

[quote="DominicJ"]

RGR · Post by **RGR** » 31 May 2011, 14:35

[quote="biffvernon"]

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 01 Jun 2011, 09:11

RGR wrote:
DominicJ wrote: Peak oil is a political and technological problem, not a geology problem.
I can agree with most of that statement, but I am not so sure how much of a problem it is. Of course, I am a pragmatist, and it is difficult to see peak oil as a problem when the solutions are not only here, but can be applied by nearly anyone and customized to their particular lifestyle. People not LIKING the consequences of their lifestyle choices is completely different than a "problem" from the perspective of society in general.

Am I reading this correctly ? Are you saying that we can mitigate peak oil by changing our lifestyles, we might not like the changes, but it isn't a problem ?

To me, having to change my lifestyle to one I don't like is a problem.

ziggy12345 · Post by **ziggy12345** » 01 Jun 2011, 10:08

Catweazle wrote: To me, having to change my lifestyle to one I don't like is a problem.

You and 6 billion others. Its a problem when you take stuff away from people. Fortunately the next generation will not have any experience of how good we had it and the hell hole they inherit will feel normal to them. The same will be true of the generation after

RGR · Post by **RGR** » 01 Jun 2011, 14:27

[quote="Catweazle"]

RGR · Post by **RGR** » 01 Jun 2011, 14:33

[quote="ziggy12345"]

postie · Post by **postie** » 01 Jun 2011, 15:43

ziggy12345 · Post by **ziggy12345** » 01 Jun 2011, 16:35

Just when we thought he was getting it...

postie · Post by **postie** » 01 Jun 2011, 17:40

And still not a single link, or anything else, to anything, whatsoever, anywhere about why Peak Oil isn't going to happen in our lifespan.

You can try and claim, NOW.. and I'm guessing it is tongue in cheek, that PO has already happened and.. as you keep saying, take your pick at which year. Though before you were challenged, you've consistently been saying that PO isn't going to happen. It's your stock-in-trade.

So. Even if you discount anything that might identify you, can you point to any other evidence that justifies your claims. Anything. At all?

Or are you ploughing a very lonely, one man crusade... and do you wear a tin-foil hat?

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 01 Jun 2011, 20:44

ziggy12345 wrote:Just when we thought he was getting it...

He gets it allright. Read between the lies, sorry lines, and you can see the message "get ready for change".

To be fair to RGR, he has been pretty consistent with the message, years ago he was saying that oil is massively undervalued and he's right, it has been.

Even if oil stays at the current price ( and I don't think it will ) we have some major adjustments to make long-term.

Remember, RGR argues on a technical and pedantic point that revolves on reserves and recoverable oil increasing as technology to extract it improves. He selectively ignores the fact that some of this new technology is very expensive, will screw us consumers and force us to change our lifestyles.

He even tries to spin it so that forcing us to change our lifestyles is a good thing.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 01 Jun 2011, 22:19

Catweazle wrote: Even if oil stays at the current price ( and I don't think it will ) we have some major adjustments to make long-term.

But how high can it go?

In a world where everybody is getting poorer, who will be able to afford oil at $200 a barrel? Seems to me that demand destruction will be so severe at that level that it can't ever go much higher (adjusted for general inflation).

I think this is the biggest mistake the prophets of oil doom made in the early years of this century. We totally failed to account for the level of demand destruction which has actually happened.

madibe · Post by **madibe** » 01 Jun 2011, 23:01

Not one usually to go with RGR but.... I had an independant thought yesterday...., LOL...

Yes, future generations will not miss what they have not got. And yes, it is going to get shitty.

Fortunately all records of humanity of the past centuary are digital (ish) so a good old EMP bomb or ten will wipe out any memory for future generations of what they are missing out on.

Anyway, once a generation or so have lived with crap and gristle they will be happy as pigs in shit.

This thought was brought about by the news of Endevour's last flight. Ah, the pinnacle of our exploration and achievement? All that the current generation seems fixed on now is what app they have, how their face book page is looking and can they get the latest i-pod-a-lod.

Shite.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 01 Jun 2011, 23:19

Endevour's last flight may mark the end of big boys' toys but its science value is rather limited. There are plenty of other opportunities for exploration and achievement.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 01 Jun 2011, 23:20

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Catweazle wrote: Even if oil stays at the current price ( and I don't think it will ) we have some major adjustments to make long-term.
But how high can it go?

In a world where everybody is getting poorer, who will be able to afford oil at $200 a barrel? Seems to me that demand destruction will be so severe at that level that it can't ever go much higher (adjusted for general inflation).

I think this is the biggest mistake the prophets of oil doom made in the early years of this century. We totally failed to account for the level of demand destruction which has actually happened.

If petrol was £20 a gallon I'd still buy it to run my chainsaw and rotavator, because even at that price it would be good value for the work done by it.

I wouldn't put it in my car to visit the supermarket, but there wouldn't be anything on the shelves anyway.

There are a load of lifestyle changes coming, and most aren't improvements.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 01 Jun 2011, 23:39

Catweazle wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Catweazle wrote: Even if oil stays at the current price ( and I don't think it will ) we have some major adjustments to make long-term.
But how high can it go?

In a world where everybody is getting poorer, who will be able to afford oil at $200 a barrel? Seems to me that demand destruction will be so severe at that level that it can't ever go much higher (adjusted for general inflation).

I think this is the biggest mistake the prophets of oil doom made in the early years of this century. We totally failed to account for the level of demand destruction which has actually happened.
If petrol was £20 a gallon I'd still buy it to run my chainsaw and rotavator, because even at that price it would be good value for the work done by it.

I wouldn't put it in my car to visit the supermarket, but there wouldn't be anything on the shelves anyway.

Yes. The higher goes the price, the more of the stuff gets used where it is most effective and most needed and ever more of the less crucial uses stop happening.