SNP election victory - Scottish independence ahead?

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 07 May 2011, 19:01

When I was living in Scotland, about the time their parly was founded, they were talking about being like Finland if they had independence.

But, if RBS were their central bank, would we (sassenachs) demand our bail-out money back? And if we did, would they have the loot to cough up??

AndySir · Post by **AndySir** » 07 May 2011, 19:50

That would be our bail-out money as well, RC, and I understand that we own about 84% of the company at a cost of £20bn. It's posting profits in the £1bn region now and has assets in the £1.5 trillion region. You want any putative Scottish government to take on that deal I imagine they will take your hand off.

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 07 May 2011, 21:46

Central Bank? Currency
****
Probably have their own, but they coul use sterling with little trouble, lots of nations use the US dollar, or peg to it
****

Goverment Debt
North Sea tax revenues (how can they all go to Scotland if the oil was developed using mainly British companies when it was a British resource)
****
Likely apportioned on a per capita basis, if England decided to take the oil by force, theres little socltand could do to stop it
****

Armed Services (would you have an English and scots army - who gets the tanks and who gets the planes etc lol?)
****
Shared amicably, very little to scotland, possibly a cash settlement instead. Divided on a per capita basis, Scotland would get 1 nuclear submarine, 1 destroyer, 20 Typhoons ect.
Likely it would only want small helicopters and coastal patrol craft.
****

Pension and healthcare liabilities and other benefits, with so many Scots in England and visa versa - who gets what?
****
Pick your nationality
****

Scottish MP's in Westminster (there are one or two!)
Scottish Ministers in Westminster - do they come or go.
****
As above, if you were born in scotland, but are an MP in Dorchester, you can either become a Scot, and step down from the English Parliament, or become English and remain

Infrastructure - water/energy etc.
****
Where ever it is, it is
****

Taxation - for example corp tax goes to the British government to be spent inclusive of Scotland, which ones would pay to Scotland/England?
****
Where ever it is, it is. Tesco would split into Tesco England and Tesco Scotland, Tesco Scotland would pay tax to Scotland, TE to England

The list seems endless. The beaucracy alone would bankrupt both countries! (and the lawyers fees no doubt!)

[/quote]
****
Nar, its been done before, when the USSR collapsed, when Slovakia quit Czechoslovakia.

energy-village · Post by **energy-village** » 11 May 2011, 16:57

DomJ's post reminds me of this BBC article from 2007. It would be a messy business. The years of uncertainty might sink sterling.

A Scottish divorce... who gets the kids?

It's the divorce settlement from hell. With no pre-nuptial agreement in place, exactly how would Scotland withdraw from the UK, asks Chris Bowlby.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7129382.stm

How about a pragmatic federal UK instead?

bigjim · Post by **bigjim** » 13 May 2011, 00:19

energy-village wrote:How about a pragmatic federal UK instead?

+1

One great idea I heard a few years back was to make the House of Commons England only, give the other three parts of the UK their own parliaments and turn the House of Lords into a UK senate.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 13 May 2011, 00:21

bigjim wrote:
energy-village wrote:How about a pragmatic federal UK instead?
+1

One great idea I heard a few years back was to make the House of Commons England only, give the other three parts of the UK their own parliaments and turn the House of Lords into a UK senate.

The other three already have their own parliaments.

This sounds like a pretty good idea, but there would have to be some interesting technicalities overcome to get there. Who gets to pass bills concerning the army, for example? For some sorts of legislation, it only makes sense to do it UK-wide. This can probably be done, but I suspect there will be plenty of devil in the details.

energy-village · Post by **energy-village** » 13 May 2011, 01:06

bigjim wrote:
energy-village wrote:How about a pragmatic federal UK instead?
One great idea I heard a few years back was to make the House of Commons England only, give the other three parts of the UK their own parliaments and turn the House of Lords into a UK senate.

Excellent idea!

AndySir · Post by **AndySir** » 13 May 2011, 08:33

I imagine a more autonomous Scotland would be more than welcome up here too. Sadly Cameron has just blocked moves towards fiscal autonomy and Salmond has no need to compromise with a 'do you want more powers for Holyrood' question on the referendum now.

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 13 May 2011, 13:52

energy-village wrote:DomJ's post reminds me of this BBC article from 2007. It would be a messy business. The years of uncertainty might sink sterling.

A Scottish divorce... who gets the kids?

It's the divorce settlement from hell. With no pre-nuptial agreement in place, exactly how would Scotland withdraw from the UK, asks Chris Bowlby.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7129382.stm
How about a pragmatic federal UK instead?

National break ups arent new, and some dont even begin/end with mass murder.
The BBC simply doesnt like the idea, because if the 300 year old British Union can unravel, the 50 year old European Union can do so as well.

The Czechs and Slovaks split without trouble, the Nowegians and the Swedes did. The Koreans were forcibly split. The Serbs were told they couldnt have the Balklans anymore.

Cabrone · Post by **Cabrone** » 14 May 2011, 12:05

On top of all the economic issues described in the other posts my prediction is that Scotland withdrawing from the UK would eventually lead to a political break up of England and Wales.

Without the Labour counterweight that is the Scottish electorate the Tories would get in 4 - 4.5 times out of 5 (the 0.5 being a coalition govt).

This in turn would cause serious disillusionment within the English Labour strongholds of the North East\West + Wales which would eventually lead to a federalised England and Wales.

Regional govts would control SE\SW\Midlands\London\NW\NE England + Wales with Westminster operating purely for foreign policy + defence.

Another point is that with an English\Welsh swing to the right we might even leave the EU whilst a centre left Scotland would stay in.

Passports to go to Scotland??

frankd2689 · Post by **frankd2689** » 19 May 2011, 16:43

But, if RBS were their central bank, would we (sassenachs) demand our bail-out money back? And if we did, would they have the loot to cough up??[/quote]

Can I just point out that the word Sassenach is probably a corruption of the
Gaelic word for Saxon and actually means (in their terms) 'Lowlander'.

Being from Glasgow, I am a Sassenach.

Let's not get too carried away here into an implied Scottish racism. Pragmatism will out...

Having said that I think that wee Alex (bless him) is holding fire on the referendum so that the cuts from Westminster will by 2014 have pissed everybody off and he'll claim that independence is the lesser of two evils.

Cheers