UK large-scale study on the impact of weight-loss surgery

[Aurora]

I've put some weight on in the last 3 weeks. My excuse is I'm recovering from surgery, not a gastric band. Soon as I'm back at work I'll be back to my normal weight.

I was watching the BBC and they were telling us that they had saved 100 or so people from type 2 diabetes. Thus saving the NHS from having to provide treatment for the illness.

Personally, the obese are just another tier above the infirm during a die-off situation.

Sorry to hear you've been laid up Haggis but no excuses I'm afraid. If you're unable to take exercise then eat less - your body doesn't need it.

[goslow]

To my knowledge the standard dietary advice for some time has been to follow a Mediterranean diet, i.e. fruit, veg, nuts and fish.

As for the 'addictive' nature of junk food, why not just stop at once? It's called 'cold turkey' and all it takes is will power together with a sense of personal responsibility.

Well, a lot of people are saying now that its the high carbohydrate content of our diet that is a big problem. Rather than the concept of cutting out fat which has been the main emphasis in the mainstream diet plans, that rarely seem to work. So the "food pyramid" that puts carbs as the "base" is now suggested as a major contributor to heart disease, diabetes, and obesity. Its still controversial but lots of support growing for this point of view. I think everyone still agrees that the Mediterannean diet you mention is good for you.

Cold turkey is possibly the only sure way of resolving the food addiction problem for many folk, with the right support (and motivation, granted). But probably easier first if people get eating the good stuff, which should help with much of the brain chemistry issues.

[Aurora]

To my knowledge the standard dietary advice for some time has been to follow a Mediterranean diet, i.e. fruit, veg, nuts and fish.

As for the 'addictive' nature of junk food, why not just stop at once? It's called 'cold turkey' and all it takes is will power together with a sense of personal responsibility.

Well, a lot of people are saying now that its the high carbohydrate content of our diet that is a big problem. Rather than the concept of cutting out fat which has been the main emphasis in the mainstream diet plans, that rarely seem to work. So the "food pyramid" that puts carbs as the "base" is now suggested as a major contributor to heart disease, diabetes, and obesity. Its still controversial but lots of support growing for this point of view. I think everyone still agrees that the Mediterannean diet you mention is good for you.

Cold turkey is possibly the only sure way of resolving the food addiction problem for many folk, with the right support (and motivation, granted). But probably easier first if people get eating the good stuff, which should help with much of the brain chemistry issues.

The post war scarcity of food in the early nineteen fifties meant that people ate less but what they did eat was natural and wholesome and few people, if any, were overweight.

Cold turkey with the right support?

If you want to remain slim and healthy - JUST DO IT! Surely that is all the motivation an individual requires.

I'm getting tired of the 'oh so PC way' we all dance around the elephant ( ) in the room.

Time to tell it like it is. If you're fat - stop eating so much and eat healthily.

[goslow]

ok aurora so you never were in the situation of helping someone with an addiction then.

[Aurora]

ok aurora so you never were in the situation of helping someone with an addiction then.

Cute. Isn't it obvious though? If you're getting bigger and you can't be bothered / are unable to exercise properly then stop eating so much.

There are people in this country who are in excess of forty stone in weight. When they reached fifteen to twenty stone, don't you think that should have been a bit of a wake up call?

The NHS is currently under a tremendous pressure to survive.

It's there to provide care when one becomes ill.

It most definitely isn't there to pander to the whims of the Great British Entitlement and Dependency Society who can't be arsed to look after themselves in the first place.

[DominicJ]

There are people in this country who are in excess of forty stone in weight. When they reached fifteen to twenty stone, don't you think that should have been a bit of a wake up call?

I just cant imagine, even with little exercise, how much you would have to eat to maintain that a bodyweight of forty stone.

To my knowledge the standard dietary advice for some time has been to follow a Mediterranean diet, i.e. fruit, veg, nuts and fish.

And oil and butter and fat.
Come now, lets not pretend their are no fat italians.

As for the 'addictive' nature of junk food, why not just stop at once? It's called 'cold turkey' and all it takes is will power together with a sense of personal responsibility.

If you really think its that easy, I suggest you give up caffene cold turkey...

[2 As and a B]

Well, a lot of people are saying now that its the high carbohydrate content of our diet that is a big problem. Rather than the concept of cutting out fat which has been the main emphasis in the mainstream diet plans, that rarely seem to work. So the "food pyramid" that puts carbs as the "base" is now suggested as a major contributor to heart disease, diabetes, and obesity. Its still controversial but lots of support growing for this point of view. I think everyone still agrees that the Mediterannean diet you mention is good for you.

I seem to remember it goes something like this: oils and fats are absorbed poorly and mostly used immediately; carbs are absorbed easily and mostly converted to fat and stored. So fatty food OK in a balanced diet; potatoes, bread and pasta definitely not OK in excess. Is that roughly it?

[goslow]

OK, the evil-carbohydrate hypothesis suggests that Italians are fat because of all the pasta, pizza and sugar in their espressos. Not because of olive oil or fatty meat.

The calorie counting idea fails to take into account that the body deals with fat, protein and carbohydrate in different ways. An obese person can sometimes be eating quite a modest diet, but be switched into a "famine-storage" mode, and so keep putting on the weight rather than burning off the calories. This is why many calorie constriction diets simply don't work.
Conversely, a thin person like me can eat mnay more calories than an obese person and remain thin (but probably unhealthy too).

The addiction aspect can be seen in the yo-yo-dieting experience (another indication that dieting does not work). If its ever accepted that at least some people have a chemical dependency on junk food, then I hope we have a more sensible approach than just "stop eating". We don't expect anyone else with an addiction to manage that way.

The food industry has a part to play of course. They don't have to sell us junk except its profitable to do so and its what we say we like. We are originally developed as hunter gatherers and the types of food we regularly eat these days (sugar, refined carbohydrates) would not have been encountered much in the past. Biochemically, its an assault on our natural metabolism that is hard to cope with and yet hard to resist!

[goslow]

I seem to remember it goes something like this: oils and fats are absorbed poorly and mostly used immediately; carbs are absorbed easily and mostly converted to fat and stored. So fatty food OK in a balanced diet; potatoes, bread and pasta definitely not OK in excess. Is that roughly it?

Yes, that's roughly it, also keep the sugar down. Some would go further and suggest its much healthier to completely remove refined carbohydrates, maybe for some people that is a helpful thing to do.

The idea of fat in food = fat person may seem obvious, but the idea is increasingly being challenged.

[2 As and a B]

An obvious (and obviously stupid) question, I know, but is there any way to switch off, or turn down, the "famine-storage" mode? What are the latest research findings?

[goslow]

I think its possible but not necessarily one easy solution for everyone. I'll try to find some info.

[goslow]

OK, so its complicated and still a matter of intense academic debate (you can find that in the recent scientific reviews on PubMed, try searching "insulin low carbohydrate diet").

Reducing high insulin levels is key. Its suggested that a low carbohydrate, higher fat diet can switch the body out of the storage mode. For general reading try books by Gary Taubes (Good Calories, Bad Calories, or Why we get fat).

Leptin resistance may also be relevant, affecting how full people feel.

[2 As and a B]

Thanks goslow. I'm not saying I'm in "famine-storage" mode, but I'm not saying I'm not either! May just be age-related slowing of metabolism (if that is something different) but I find it hard to shift, and keep off, the weight I have accumulated over the years. A lower carb/booze diet would no doubt help anyway.

[emordnilap]

Moderation in everything except moderation.

[2 As and a B]

Yeah, I can resist everything except temptation.