Nuclear accident follows Japanese earthqauke

raspberry-blower · Post by **raspberry-blower** » 15 Mar 2011, 17:13

Elena Filatova's website has video footage of the Russian attempts to halt the release of radioactive materials at Chernobyl.

Includes a video of a helicopter accident at the site during the clean-up operation...

Post by **adam2** » 15 Mar 2011, 19:06

biffvernon wrote:
Japan also announced a 30-km no-fly zone around the reactors to prevent planes spreading the radiation further afield.
Do planes really stir up the atmosphere that much? I just find this a bit strange.

The lack of pics may be explained by this tweet:
photographer friend just called from Fukushima area. all media is gone. but local people have no way to leave. very sad
The press have gone away without even leaving a webcam behind! How likely is that?

I would not expect aircraft to stir up the air that much, and so what if they did ?
The same amount of radioactive material has been released in any case, and it makes no real difference if it is slightly more concentrated in a slightly smaller area, or a little more dilute over a larger area.
I would expect that natural occuring wind and convection currents would be far more significant.

Flying through smoke or ash would be unwise lest the engines be damaged.
Flying through intensively radioactive debris would be unwise owing to the dose received by the crew or passengers. It would have to be very radioactive indeed to be dangerous for a brief flypast.
They may wish to keep the airspace clear for water dumping flights, but if so, why not say so?

A cynic might suspect that the radiation release is worse than is being admitted to, and they dont want any independant airborne measurements.

I doubt that it is to prevent visuall observations as they cant stop satelite photography, which is very detailed these days.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 15 Mar 2011, 19:20

The degree of optimism of commentators seems correlated to how
closely their personal fortunes/careers are alligned with the nuclear monolith. The worst case I have come across so far was the retort "but they were only small explosions"!

For a really pessamistic, or maybe merely realistic, take on events Russia Today tv on freesat is hard to beat.

Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for months and be located well above the high water line.....

Mean Mr Mustard · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard** » 15 Mar 2011, 19:49

Roger Adair wrote:Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for months and be located well above the high water line.....

Mean Mr Mustard · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard** » 15 Mar 2011, 19:53

Roger's strapline sez:

Ultimately, in any finite system, even the most externalised of costs, will eventually emerge and require payment. Paul Roberts

... which is something like this line at the bottom of the 14/3 Meltdown Thread over on TOD...

the bottom line is:
Debt is a claim on future money
Money is a claim on future work
The ability to do work is the definition of energy.
There is more debt than there is money and there is more money than there is energy so a lot of people aren't going to be able to redeem their coupons.

Priceless...

Post by **adam2** » 15 Mar 2011, 20:55

Mean Mr Mustard wrote:
Roger Adair wrote:Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for months and be located well above the high water line.....

Agree entirely, for something as critical as a nuclear reactor.
My sigline refers to standby generators for offices, shops, and public buildings, though I grant it does not actually say so.

I dont claim the remark to be original, it is copied from a report into the Great Auckland Blackout. It was found that very few generators ran for more a few hours. Similar observations were made AFTER the Great Dartford power cut.

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 15 Mar 2011, 20:58

Oh, I thought it was a reference to a lack of a vehicle.

Post by **adam2** » 15 Mar 2011, 21:33

foodimista wrote:Oh, I thought it was a reference to a lack of a vehicle.

Well I suppose that the installer might have to run for week if it did not work ! though it is hardly the fault of the installer if the owner keeps little fuel or never maintains the equipment.

marknorthfield · Post by **marknorthfield** » 15 Mar 2011, 21:48

From BBC's live online updates. Looks like they're giving up on the dousing spent fuel ponds by helicopter idea.

2126: Tokyo Electric Power Co (Tepco) has just announced it is abandoning the plan to use helicopters to drop water as it would be too impractical, AP reports. It said other options were being considered, including using fire engines. Our correspondent said there had been concerns over the proposal, not least because of the possible health impact for the helicopter pilots.

'Other options being considered' rather reeks of 'we have no idea what to do'. I hope to be proved wrong.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 15 Mar 2011, 22:14

#4 reactor is on fire again.

Spent fuel in #5 and #6 is heating up.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 15 Mar 2011, 22:19

The Guardian - 15/03/11

UN's nuclear watchdog IAEA under fire over response to Japanese disaster

IAEA and Japanese secretary-general accused of ignoring lessons of Chernobyl and letting firms cut corners at Fukushima.

Article continues ...

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 15 Mar 2011, 22:31

TEPCO seem like a rather dodgy company
http://www.truth-out.org/tokyo-electric ... ators68457

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 15 Mar 2011, 22:48

marknorthfield wrote:

'Other options being considered' rather reeks of 'we have no idea what to do'. I hope to be proved wrong.

Considering other options [/b]always means "we have no idea what to do and what we are about to try is even crazier than Plan A which didn't work IMHO. Quite simply people under pressure in a stressful and dangerous situations can easily make glaringly unobvious non recoverable errors.

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 15 Mar 2011, 23:31

Roger Adair wrote:Quite simply people under pressure in a stressful and dangerous situations can easily make glaringly unobvious non recoverable errors.

At the other end of the scale, people under no pressure whatsoever in laid-back and totally safe situations... can easily make glaringly unobvious non-recoverable errors

Several currently pertinent examples spring to mind...

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 15 Mar 2011, 23:33

Roger Adair wrote:
For a really pessamistic, or maybe merely realistic, take on events Russia Today tv on freesat is hard to beat.

Yup, say what you like about the Russians, but blind optimism isn't among their faults