I may be insane

[Andy Hunt]

I work in local government and could lose my job at any time.

I have split up with my other half and am in the process of remortgaging in order to pay her for her half of the house.

So what have I done? I've put in an offer on 4 acres of woodland which will push my mortgage right up to near the limits of the equity on my house.

It's not even near where I live - in fact it's a 2 1/2 hour drive away.

But - that could be a good thing. Sure it will cost me a lot in diesel every time I go there, but as long as I bring back a load of logs for the woodburner every time, it will be saving me money. And it is even somewhere that I could 'bug out' to if TSHTF, I could stash some food there and some 'temporary' living arrangements no problem.

Plus, it's right next to what I am advised is one of the best trout fishing estuaries in Britain, and you don't need a licence if you fish in an estuary.

And because I am borrowing against my house to buy the woodland, even if the worst happened and I lost the house, I would still have the woodland, as it will be bought and paid for.

So what do you reckon? Am I mad?!

[Catweazle]

I don't think you're mad, owning a bit of woodland is lovely, but I have reservations about owning it so far from home. In a fuel crisis you will find it difficult to afford to get your "free" fuel home.

Perhaps it would be better to go knocking on local farms doors and ask them direct to sell you a few acres, you might find a nice piece close by.

[Andy Hunt]

I don't think you're mad, owning a bit of woodland is lovely, but I have reservations about owning it so far from home. In a fuel crisis you will find it difficult to afford to get your "free" fuel home.

Perhaps it would be better to go knocking on local farms doors and ask them direct to sell you a few acres, you might find a nice piece close by.

I have been waiting for literally years to find something nearby, there is nothing. The only stuff which has come up is in Yorkshire and the prices are extortionate. The only reason I have been able to afford this at all is because it is where it is.

I will visit it maybe once a month and spend a long weekend there. It is actually physically possible to get there by train, although obviously I wouldn't be able to bring back firewood that way. In an absolute fuel crisis I wouldn't be able to get there, but if things were that bad I think I would be glad to be in a market town in any case.

Just seems like a no-lose option at this point really. I'm going to have a bigger mortgage anyway, so the extra won't make any material difference.

Plus I have a couple of young nephews who will love it

[Catweazle]

Have you looked on the auction sites ?

Here's one of 3 acres about 20 miles from you

http://www.pugh-auctions.com/Lot/Manche ... 110224/010

[Catweazle]

This 2 acre plot is just up the road from you

http://www.pugh-auctions.com/Lot/Manche ... 110224/003

No woodland as yet, but potential to plant quite a few willow around the lakes. At a guide of between 1 and 5 k I would buy it if it was near me. Unfortunately down here it would be 25k .

Could be a bargain, you never know who'll turn up at auction.

[woodpecker]

Have you looked on the auction sites ?

Here's one of 3 acres about 20 miles from you

http://www.pugh-auctions.com/Lot/Manche ... 110224/010

He he, I've walked past that spot late at night on the way to the reservoir, somewhat the worse for wear...

[woodburner]

It's not even near where I live - in fact it's a 2 1/2 hour drive away.

But - that could be a good thing. Sure it will cost me a lot in diesel every time I go there, but as long as I bring back a load of logs for the woodburner every time, it will be saving me money. And it is even somewhere that I could 'bug out' to if TSHTF, I could stash some food there and some 'temporary' living arrangements no problem.

The return loads of wood may reduce your costs, but I doubt you will "save" money overall. You would need a big wagon to do this and hauling logs around 100 miles is not economic.

Plus, it's right next to what I am advised is one of the best trout fishing estuaries in Britain, and you don't need a licence if you fish in an estuary.

That's a good point. With trout and squirrel (there must be some there) available you could eat well. When TSHTF though you will have to fight off hundreds of people with the same idea.

And because I am borrowing against my house to buy the woodland, even if the worst happened and I lost the house, I would still have the woodland, as it will be bought and paid for.

The wood would only be safe if the amount realised by the sale of the house repaid the mortgage. Otherwise you might find the wood is treated as an asset to be use to settle the debt.

[Andy Hunt]

All these things are true, and I suppose if it was simply economic considerations then it might be borderline.

But it is in a far prettier part of the world than where I live, it is a mature woodland with plenty of trees with a timber value (although I don't have a plan to realise any of that as yet), and it's as much for enjoyment and conservation value as anything else. A long weekend working down there, camping, fishing and exploring the countryside, coming back with a load of firewood so the weekend's holiday has basically cost me nothing and has done both me and the woodland some good, is something I can live with very happily I think. And there is always the possibility that I will move nearer there at some stage in my life, it's certainly somewhere I'd rather end up than where I am at the moment I think.

I dunno, I hear all the arguments against and they are all good one's, but it just seems right somehow, at this time.

[Catweazle]

Follow your heart by all means, but don't forget about the auctions. Just about now is when all the pre-Christmas credit card debt begins to bite people, so you might find a bargain, although to be honest there seems to be a lot of corporate money chasing woodlands now.

When considering a wood you should consider access and security, a private gate means you can be sure it's strong and always locked and if it's surrounded by more secure land or land unsuitable for vehicles then there is less chance of pikeys in 4x4 stealing your wood. Wood thefts are becoming increasingly common. A lack of public footpaths is a good thing, it prevents the casual wanderer from spotting your logpile. Drainage ditches are good obstacles and if you have the energy you can make raised banks to stop vehicles. Deer fencing is a bonus, they can do a lot of damage to new growth and it's not cheap to install.

Tracy Pepler from this site manages the Small Woods Owners Group,

http://www.swog.org.uk/

You'll find lots of help there.

[DominicJ]

As has already been said, the mortgage is attached to you, not just the house, they can and will come after other assets.

With a big chunk of Forestry Commisson Woodland coming onto market soon, is this the best to buy?

[adam2]

I think that you have acted sensibly.
If BAU continues, you should be able to pay the mortgage without problems and will eventually own the unencumbered freehold.
The fishing rights could be valuable.

In a moderate or gentle crash, you might lose the house, but still have the woodland, in which you could live in emergency, or as a last resort sell.
A moderate, gentle or slow crash might be preceeded by high inflation which would pay most of the mortage for you.

In case of TEOTWAWKI possesion is nine tenths of the law and old debts to bust mortgage holders may be of little real concern.

The two main points to consider are, if you lose your job, what are the prospects of finding another at a sufficient salary to pay the mortgage ?
And how safe is your land from squaters/pikeys ?

Houses are more readily bought and sold than woodland.
Any prospect of selling your home and buying another near the wood?

I would certainly urge a buried stash of survival supplies.

[Andy Hunt]

When considering a wood you should consider access and security, a private gate means you can be sure it's strong and always locked and if it's surrounded by more secure land or land unsuitable for vehicles then there is less chance of pikeys in 4x4 stealing your wood. Wood thefts are becoming increasingly common. A lack of public footpaths is a good thing, it prevents the casual wanderer from spotting your logpile. Drainage ditches are good obstacles and if you have the energy you can make raised banks to stop vehicles. Deer fencing is a bonus, they can do a lot of damage to new growth and it's not cheap to install.

Tracy Pepler from this site manages the Small Woods Owners Group,

http://www.swog.org.uk/

You'll find lots of help there.

Thanks Catweazle, all excellent advice. The wood in question is next to a small B road, vehicle access is via a strong locked metal gate off an adjoining B-road. Access by foot is possible from the main B-road but not by vehicle as there are simply too many trees in the way.

Anyone breaking in the main gate will first encounter a number of other plots owned by other people, with a good track leading up a hill directly away from my prospective plot.

Although I am going to use the woodland for firewood, I don't actually plan to keep much cut wood on the site. My log store at home when full of cut logs can hold around 4 cubic metres which is about half to two thirds of my winter requirement. So my plan is to cut wood every time I am there, bring it back in a van and transfer it straight into my store at home. I may leave a stack of seasoned 'poles' on site which are more difficult to move in a hurry but which I could go down and saw into short lengths for the stove and bring back in a weekend.

[Andy Hunt]

Thanks Adam.

The two main points to consider are, if you lose your job, what are the prospects of finding another at a sufficient salary to pay the mortgage ?
And how safe is your land from squaters/pikeys ?

Houses are more readily bought and sold than woodland.
Any prospect of selling your home and buying another near the wood?

I would certainly urge a buried stash of survival supplies.

My new mortgage which is necessary anyway has a repayment term of 7 years at my current rate of repayment. Purchase of this woodland will bump that up to 11 years. Either way, whatever is going to happen to me financially is going to happen, in the timeframe I am looking at I doubt it will make an appreciable difference. And it's actually not that big a mortgage in any case to be honest. So it seems to me that I should just act now and deal with whatever is in store as it comes up - which I will have to do in any case.

If squatters wanted to move in they probably could, but this woodland really is in the back of beyond and there are plenty of other woods which would probably be more attractive. It's as secure as any woodland is, in short.

In the long term I could sell up and move closer to the wood, and in fact that's what I would like to do - or even rent mine out and buy closer if possible. But at present it's too far from my job.

[sam_uk]

You want one of these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JyazgRBtq8

On a old landy with PTO. You attach a chipper to the PTO and chip the coppiced Green-burning Ash that you planted.

Stick a trailer on the landy and you get your logs home under wood power!

Old version
http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml

New version
http://www.gekgasifier.com/

[the mad cyclist]

Catweazle, have you come across any unforeseen overheads in owning a wood?