Who will end the American Dream?

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 24 Nov 2010, 01:01

I've just watched the program about the American Dream on BBC2 with Robert Rosenburg, the son of the couple executed in 1953 for passing on the A-bomb secrets. He was saying that they were executed because the US was paranoid that communism would end the American Dream.

It's a bit ironic that the Dream seems likely to be ended the people supposedly at the heart of promoting it, American *ankers, oil men and businessmen!

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 24 Nov 2010, 01:59

Well what is the American dream, I'd say it ended when you had income tax and the fed and a national government that spends like crazy .

The American dream would be something like homesteading growing your own potatoes without having to grow potatoes for other people.

rugged individualism, free enterprise and pure capitalism, now you have socialism for the bankers, idleness and dependency

lancasterlad · Post by **lancasterlad** » 24 Nov 2010, 05:20

jonny2mad wrote:Well what is the American dream...

An illusion - nothing more.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 24 Nov 2010, 05:49

Well for a while you had a country where you could succeed or fail according to individual effort and the state stayed out of your way .
So I wouldn't say it was always a dream, the original idea of America was pretty fine

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 24 Nov 2010, 07:54

The American Dream was different things to different people. Just ask Martin Luther King Jr.

I've recorded but not yet watched part 1 of the American Dream series so I'll shut up now.

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 24 Nov 2010, 10:25

I've just watched the program about the American Dream on BBC2 with Robert Rosenburg, the son of the couple executed in 1953 for passing on the A-bomb secrets. He was saying that they were executed because the US was paranoid that communism would end the American Dream.

It's a bit ironic that the Dream seems likely to be ended the people supposedly at the heart of promoting it, American *ankers, oil men and businessmen!

I watched this also - the American Dream was probably great for a while, ie people getting off their backsides and getting something done for themselves through individual enterprise, but to be honest once the war ended, it was just about getting a bunch of people to consume what they don't need while the gubbermint gets on with bashing so-called 'evildoers'.

The thing that always gets me is that you always hear them banging on about 'small govt' but during the Cold War it was big enough to develop the biggest military apparatus the world's ever seen.

I've been to the US loads of times, and I'm always amazed how sinister it all is ie once you get below the surface, all is definitely not well, especially the last few years.

Come to think of it, once the US's oil production peaked in the '70s, I guess you could say that the dream began to unravel about then.....

woodpecker · Post by **woodpecker** » 24 Nov 2010, 11:26

What was the programme called? (or when was it transmitted?)

the_lyniezian · Post by **the_lyniezian** » 24 Nov 2010, 12:01

woodpecker wrote:What was the programme called? (or when was it transmitted?)

Simply 'American Dream', on Saturdays at 8:30pm, BBC2. (Or an hour later in N.I.)

Is repeated tonight at twenty past midnight (or ten to 1).

First episode's been aired, seond of three I think this Saturday.

nexus · Post by **nexus** » 24 Nov 2010, 14:38

The latest post on Orlov's blog runs through the unravelling of America and the lie of the 'American dream' - mostly it's stuff we know about, but worth perusing anyway:

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 24 Nov 2010, 17:28

He was saying that they were executed because the US was paranoid that communism would end the American Dream.

Hmm ... the explosive lens was a BIG DEAL at the time. It was a paranoid world then, and examples needed to be set - according to the world-view prevailing: Pour l'encouragement d'les autres

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 24 Nov 2010, 18:09

Wanted to watch that programme, its not on bbc iplayer anymore.

Regarding the execution of Rosenberg, that had nothing to do with paranoia, they were executed for being traitors. Yes, it went too far (with Mccarthy) but there was a real problem of Soviet infiltration - even if in the longer term it is clear that Stalinist Communism had zero chance of competing with the American model.

Anyone who watches Mad Men can see the amazing lifestyle of the American white middle classes in the post -war era (and some blacks did share in that like in Chicago) and compared to your average Soviet worker, Communism was never a threat to the American ruling class.

RogueMale · Post by **RogueMale** » 24 Nov 2010, 21:43

AutomaticEarth wrote:I watched this also - the American Dream was probably great for a while, ie people getting off their backsides and getting something done for themselves through individual enterprise, but to be honest once the war ended, it was just about getting a bunch of people to consume what they don't need while the gubbermint gets on with bashing so-called 'evildoers'.

This orgy of consumption began well before WW2. The man to blame was Edward Bernays. The Century of the Self by Adam Curtis is worth watching.

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 25 Nov 2010, 11:27

Ah yes Bernays. Sigmund Freud's less well known, but more influential cousin. That was a great documentary.

woodpecker · Post by **woodpecker** » 25 Nov 2010, 12:04

Lord Beria3 wrote:Wanted to watch that programme, its not on bbc iplayer anymore.

It's not available on iplayer at all. Which would explain why iplayer reports 'no results' for 'american dream'.

Looks like it's repeated Tuesday night (not Wed).