I've seen on this site, and a few other PO sites, that "we" should be doing something to make people aware of Peak Oil. If not us.. the Govt should be letting people know.
Setting aside economic arguments of a Govt saying the oil will run out in 3 minutes... so get busy preparing.
Is it any good wailing from the rooftops about Peak Oil? Could it even be counter-productive?
I'm not saying let's shut up about Peak Oil, or stop discussing it... but is there any point in making it known to the GenPop.. especially those who watch X-factor.
I don't think it's unfair to say that most people wouldn't understand the principle if it was explained to them in big colourful letters by the cast of Sesame Street. It still wouldn't make sense to them after Peak Oil makes things very difficult for them... they'll believe it is whatever the papers tell them is causing it... ( Arabs.. foreigners, bankers, moon-mice...or whatever)
So.. what's the general consensus? Is it better the GenPop knows... or not? What could be the downfalls of both points?
Should people be made aware of Peak Oil?
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Should people be made aware of Peak Oil?
Learn to whittle now... we need a spaceship!
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Lord Beria3
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According to polls the majority of the public are aware and alarmed at the prospect of the 'oil running out' and the geopolitical implications. So to a certain degree, the majority of the public instinctively get PO already.
The real challenge is explaining just how difficult a transition from oil would be. The public assume that there will be a smooth transition to some new or renewable energy source without any trouble - although I happen to think that we will eventually develop the technologies to ensure some kind of industralised systems going into the next 50 years or so (after that who knows; a collapse into salvage societies or a post carbon abundance civiliation?) it won't be a smooth transiton. Think rough and choppy.
This is something the general public don't get. I think that rising energy prices going forward and the gradual shift of the government will gradually shift attitudes and behavour without a PR style PO campaign. Reslience, relocalisiation, a shift from abundant consumerism to frugal/scarcity consumerism going forward are in-built in BAU.
The real challenge is explaining just how difficult a transition from oil would be. The public assume that there will be a smooth transition to some new or renewable energy source without any trouble - although I happen to think that we will eventually develop the technologies to ensure some kind of industralised systems going into the next 50 years or so (after that who knows; a collapse into salvage societies or a post carbon abundance civiliation?) it won't be a smooth transiton. Think rough and choppy.
This is something the general public don't get. I think that rising energy prices going forward and the gradual shift of the government will gradually shift attitudes and behavour without a PR style PO campaign. Reslience, relocalisiation, a shift from abundant consumerism to frugal/scarcity consumerism going forward are in-built in BAU.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Well I'm not that bothered about telling people, I do but I'm not sure what good it does apart from the fact I can say to myself well I warned them .
lifes lovely I'm so happy I love everyone
everything your basing your life on is hot air and puff, it has no future
what do you mean I working towards a career in fashion design, I'm doing a degree in it my boyfriend has a great job to do with cars
can he shoot, do you both know how to grow your own carrots, my advice head off for the gold coast of Australia or the Falklands dig a fallout shelter store food and weapons, do it now even if you do it now you may not have time .
its not that bad why should I do that .
then I explain to the person why it is that bad, and every time I see them I advise them to do things like work on a farm, or they say to me I'm wondering what to get my boyfriend for his birthday, and I suggest sacks of rice or gold or a shotgun .
Anyway I don't think waking people up is going to do much good because when they do wake up the whole system will crash, its going to crash anyway but I don't wish to speed the process
lifes lovely I'm so happy I love everyone everything your basing your life on is hot air and puff, it has no future what do you mean I working towards a career in fashion design, I'm doing a degree in it my boyfriend has a great job to do with cars can he shoot, do you both know how to grow your own carrots, my advice head off for the gold coast of Australia or the Falklands dig a fallout shelter store food and weapons, do it now even if you do it now you may not have time . its not that bad why should I do that . then I explain to the person why it is that bad, and every time I see them I advise them to do things like work on a farm, or they say to me I'm wondering what to get my boyfriend for his birthday, and I suggest sacks of rice or gold or a shotgun .Anyway I don't think waking people up is going to do much good because when they do wake up the whole system will crash, its going to crash anyway but I don't wish to speed the process
"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche
optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
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RenewableCandy
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- Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
- Location: York
I cheerfully explain the bits people can do something about, to the people who I know can do something about them (iyswIm).
People who seem to understand it all, but still do the stupid thing out of habit (like my old boss) are what I can't handle. It offends my sense of logic that someone can understand that bad things will happen and yet do absolutely nothing to help themselves.
People who seem to understand it all, but still do the stupid thing out of habit (like my old boss) are what I can't handle. It offends my sense of logic that someone can understand that bad things will happen and yet do absolutely nothing to help themselves.
It is a difficult challenge. People won't change until they're ready. Oil and economic growth is an addiction, and like any addict, people will only listen and deal with it when they are ready. You can tell them about it until you blue in the face, and some may even get it, but they won't do anything until something inside them clicks, and they decide to deal with it. There are things in my life that I'm fully aware are harmful, but I'm still doing them!
Those of us who are aware need to be doing everything we can to adapt our own lives in preparation, but whatever we do will be pretty futile if the majority of people don't change. So we also need to be putting in place the building blocks that others can pick up on when they're ready. I know we've discussed this endlessly, but this is what Transition is about. It may not always be implemented in the right way, but that's the idea behind it.
This puts a big strain on us. We know we need to get the message across to everyone else, but if we try, the message won't get through to most people. So we need to inform people when they're ready to listen, and sell something people want and are willing to accept to everyone else.
The Transition Housing Group I've just started is made up of people who want to do something about insulating their old houses. If we work on this, we can have something that we can go out and sell to local people without necessarily pushing the message about PO. We can sell it on saving money, making their homes more comfortable, dealing with damp, and lots of other things that make life better for them. We could also be setting up businesses to provide the materials and services needed to make it happen.
I think this is the best we can do as individuals, or groups. Sell something that makes life better for people who don't get it, and inform them when we think they're ready to listen. The rest has to be done by the government, who need to avoid mass panic, make sure they remain electable, and deal with being in the pocket of big business who don't want change until they can profit from it.
Those of us who are aware need to be doing everything we can to adapt our own lives in preparation, but whatever we do will be pretty futile if the majority of people don't change. So we also need to be putting in place the building blocks that others can pick up on when they're ready. I know we've discussed this endlessly, but this is what Transition is about. It may not always be implemented in the right way, but that's the idea behind it.
This puts a big strain on us. We know we need to get the message across to everyone else, but if we try, the message won't get through to most people. So we need to inform people when they're ready to listen, and sell something people want and are willing to accept to everyone else.
The Transition Housing Group I've just started is made up of people who want to do something about insulating their old houses. If we work on this, we can have something that we can go out and sell to local people without necessarily pushing the message about PO. We can sell it on saving money, making their homes more comfortable, dealing with damp, and lots of other things that make life better for them. We could also be setting up businesses to provide the materials and services needed to make it happen.
I think this is the best we can do as individuals, or groups. Sell something that makes life better for people who don't get it, and inform them when we think they're ready to listen. The rest has to be done by the government, who need to avoid mass panic, make sure they remain electable, and deal with being in the pocket of big business who don't want change until they can profit from it.
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RenewableCandy
- Posts: 12777
- Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
- Location: York
It's a bit like having a daughter in a bad marriage, isn't it?
Our former next-door neighbours (we got on really well with them and I wish they hadn't left
) lady was an Addiction Councellor. I lent her a copy of "Affluenza" and was forever nattering about energy. She got it. She's probably better equipped, with her training, to deal with PO and people than I am, even though I know a load of stuff about the food and energy supply. I can tell people stuff but it takes sb more like my olde neighbour to actually get them to change...
Our former next-door neighbours (we got on really well with them and I wish they hadn't left
) lady was an Addiction Councellor. I lent her a copy of "Affluenza" and was forever nattering about energy. She got it. She's probably better equipped, with her training, to deal with PO and people than I am, even though I know a load of stuff about the food and energy supply. I can tell people stuff but it takes sb more like my olde neighbour to actually get them to change...-
UndercoverElephant
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- Location: UK
Re: Should people be made aware of Peak Oil?
The problem is not difficulty in understanding the principle, because the principle is very, very simple. The problem is that most people, even the thoughtful, helpful ones, don't know what to do when presented with a very serious threat about which they can do little or nothing.postie wrote: I don't think it's unfair to say that most people wouldn't understand the principle if it was explained to them in big colourful letters by the cast of Sesame Street.
Re: Should people be made aware of Peak Oil?
Bingo.UndercoverElephant wrote:The problem is not difficulty in understanding the principle, because the principle is very, very simple. The problem is that most people, even the thoughtful, helpful ones, don't know what to do when presented with a very serious threat about which they can do little or nothing.
I think many people are just trying to keep things together enough to get by today.
Being able to make preparations for a tomorrow that could be worse than today is not really something they can address as they see life being tough enough right now. So "tomorrow is another day" ....... and it can be dealt with when it comes.
Truth is - those of us who CAN start to address some of the problems we see are the lucky ones. Many people, I think, do not have the luxury of being able to do much...... and what is the point of hand wringing?
I don't think telling people about Peak Oil as such is particularly helpful. It's just adding another problem to the problems they have already.
The attitude I'm trying to take is to offer solutions to problems that already exist, that will also be helpful when there's less energy around.
"In the current economic climate, we really don't know what's going to happen to our energy bills, so it makes sense to insulate your home/generate your own electricity/etc."
"Fuel prices are going up, so how about getting a more efficient/electric car and trying to use the car less?"
"Have you got room to store a few months' supply of essentials? That would be really helpful if prices shot up suddenly, or you lost your job."
Those are things that could all make a difference to people, but I haven't mentioned Peak Oil once. The state of the economy gives us the perfect opportunity to give people positive suggestions without scaring them, and that's what I've started trying to do.
The attitude I'm trying to take is to offer solutions to problems that already exist, that will also be helpful when there's less energy around.
"In the current economic climate, we really don't know what's going to happen to our energy bills, so it makes sense to insulate your home/generate your own electricity/etc."
"Fuel prices are going up, so how about getting a more efficient/electric car and trying to use the car less?"
"Have you got room to store a few months' supply of essentials? That would be really helpful if prices shot up suddenly, or you lost your job."
Those are things that could all make a difference to people, but I haven't mentioned Peak Oil once. The state of the economy gives us the perfect opportunity to give people positive suggestions without scaring them, and that's what I've started trying to do.
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AutomaticEarth
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Adam Polczyk
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emordnilap
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It's harder to convince anyone of the problems of energy scarcity when they're more concerned with the pressure being put upon them economically, despite the fact that those two facets of life are inextricably linked.
We've totally missed the boat.
We've totally missed the boat.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Most people put you down as 'doomer nutter' (although they dont know the words to express that - and just think of you as being "sad").
Most people really don't want to know about your vegatables.
Most people dont want to hear about energy prices or petrol costs.
Most people do not have a fricken clue that their life depends on oil or that the lack of it will mean anything more than an increased price in a tank of gas.
Some people want the blue pill, some the red.
Most people really don't want to know about your vegatables.
Most people dont want to hear about energy prices or petrol costs.
Most people do not have a fricken clue that their life depends on oil or that the lack of it will mean anything more than an increased price in a tank of gas.
Some people want the blue pill, some the red.
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ziggy12345
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UndercoverElephant
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Oh, they tend to be quite interested in talking about price rises in the supermarket and at the petrol station. But they generally just want to blame somebody (the greedy oil companies, the greedy tax-gobbling government....)maudibe wrote:Most people put you down as 'doomer nutter' (although they dont know the words to express that - and just think of you as being "sad").
Most people really don't want to know about your vegatables.
Most people dont want to hear about energy prices or petrol costs.
I guess that a lot of them are under the impression that if there really was a serious threat to their own personal future and to the future economic well-being of their country (let alone their civilisation) that the people in a position of power would be warning them about it and trying to make the necessary preparations and adjustments. This is, after all, what is happening with respect to climate change - we are failing miserably when it comes to taking the necessary actions, but NOBODY can say they haven't been warned about it. Peak oil is a bit different. Firstly it has crept up on us far more quickly than climate change did - we went from almost nobody knowing about it to peak oil actually happening in less than one decade. Secondly, the effects of peak oil are much more directly economically relevant and the sort of fear that widespread acknowledgement of peak oil would cause would in turn cause a financial meltdown simply because of fears about what it meant for the future of The System as we know it. This is precisely what happened in 2008 when the price of oil spiked to $150 a barrel. The powers that be are DESPERATE to engender confidence in future economic growth and there's not much which destroys confidence in future economic growth than peak oil rapidly followed by peak-all-sorts-of-other-stuff.Most people do not have a fricken clue that their life depends on oil or that the lack of it will mean anything more than an increased price in a tank of gas.
Some people (Branson for example) are warning people, but I suspect that there are many others who are well aware of the situation but do not want to speak up because they are worried about what will happen when it becomes as generally-accepted as climate change currently is.