Fed up! :(

[skeptik]

What, as in the Wembly stadium?

Fundemental law of all building projects = over time and over budget (increased by order of magnitude if the word 'nuclear' is included in brief).

look...stop mucking about or we'll end up at the back of the queue and be here all day... I thought I heard the chap over there muttering about buying 30...

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... 953066.htm

[GD]

In a few years time, the nuke plant that supplies it will be coming off line. It's no secret that should there be no replacement (and soon!) the place will have to shut. This is a major employer in a small town.

Despite the unresolved waste disposal problem, I'm fairly confident this will happen. The most up-to-date designs are inherrently safer than those about to be decommissioned which were designed back in the 50's and 60's . They are also simpler and can be built quite quickly. The 'state of the art' Westinghouse reactor can be built in 3 years from first concrete poured on site to first fuel rod loaded into the core.

I've found a recent report on this link.

Wylfa and AAM have been cornerstones of the Anglesey economy for thirty years providing just under 1 in ten jobs and an even higher proportion of local earnings. Both plants started operations in 1971 from their sites at Cemaes Bay and Holyhead respectively. Wylfa was the last and largest Magnox reactor to be built and it has announced that it is due to cease operations and commence decommissioning in 2010.

AAM is highly dependent on Wylfa for energy and has a direct feed into its site from the power station. The Holyhead smelter already faces some of the highest energy costs of aluminium smelters on a worldwide basis. The decommissioning of Wylfa is likely to lead to an increase in both the unit cost of electricity for AAM and the transmission user costs of taking energy from the national grid. Given that AAM?s products are traded on the
commodity markets, any increase in its cost base may make it uneconomical to continue producing aluminium on Anglesey once Wylfa enters its decommissioning phase.

To state the bleedin obvious.

But that's not to say:

1) AAM are totally shafting their workforce already.
2) The Nimby's won round 1 already, and are geared up for round 2.

[Billhook]

GD -

It seems you're maybe misinformed regarding peoples' objections to yet more nuclear carcases littering the land -

As far as I understand the objections they are not about the derogatory NIMBY tag, whose use by the nuclear lobby merely shows the weakness of their case on myriad fronts,

it is more about NOMYPs - which decodes as meaning

"Not On My Youngsters' Planet"

Given the ease with which any nation in possession of a nuclear reactor can provide to terrorism the ingredients of a weapon of mass contamination,
and the ease with which such a weapon can be built, delivered and fired,
IMHO nuclear energy, for this plus a dozen other cogent reasons,
has no place in a strategy of sustainable energy security.

regards,

Billhook

[biffvernon]

While we sympathise with the aluminium workers of Anglesey, let us consider why the plant is there. The nuke got stuck in the remotest corner of the land because no-one wanted it near them at the time. Transmission costs and the low electricity demand from the local sheep conspired to make the then CEGB offer electricity at a price that the aluminium industry couldn't refuse. Normally aluminium goes to places with hydro power like Fort William and Iceland. To now argue that a new nuke should be built in Anglesey because there is an aluminium smelter is to put the cart in front of the horse. Fortunately for the aluminium workers, the Anglesey coast is amongst the windiest parts of the Britain so they can collect all the power they want from fresh air.

[Totally_Baffled]

Ahhh the wind vs nuclear debate!

Dont we need both?

Until we find a way of scaling wind and dealing with the intermittancy problem, it looks like we have the choice of the following in the medium to long term:

Nuclear + wind (and other renewables) +conservation

Coal + wind (and other renewables) +conservation

No stable electricity supply!

I think we need one more generation of nukes, to give us time to persue the renewables and/or local grid routes.

As for NIMBYS, these guys are not just blocking nuclear build , they're also blocking wind farms !

As for NOMYPS, I wish people had such noble intentions - but most haven't.

If you said to these same people - ok we wont build a nuke station near your house , we we build 2,500 wind turbines or a clean coal station instead , they would still kick off, NOMYPS MY ARSE!

Plus I expect these same people don't mind using finite dirty burning FF like everyone else , so their apparent concern for the next generation is disingenuous.

[GD]

FYI Bill,

I'm not for nukes. To be honest I believe we ought to start powering down and developing viable alternative industry on renewables. And the sooner the better, because we simply have to in the end anyway. (The current sentiment seems to be that many don't want to even contemplate change.)

I feel a Wylfa B would at best delay the inevitable, the chances are that for AAM it's already too late to take over from Wylfa.

I didn't mean to cause offense to anyone (I was <ahem> being hasty and shorthanding as it was late last night), I was pointing out the campaign against Wylfa B was successful in the past, and is being resisted again.

Certainly, the income that will be depleted with the closure of the two will be a big upheaval for the area. Add PO to the fuel guzzling super ferries, reliant on lorries, and there's the next 2 major employers in trouble also.

I think ideas along the lines of Bernard Lietaer and Rob Hopkins will be called for.

[wooky]

Anyway , What about this Piss up then ?????

Iwant to meet some of you doom sayers so I know we're not all brown trousered weirdos.

Ben.(New).

South wales but have Kayak so anywhere really ....... Except Norway, I owe them money.

[skeptik]

I am PO believer, but I must admit I am beginning to find the energy debate tiresome.

Somebody cheer me up please, I feel like giving up...

Seriously though, putting all the earlier nonsense aside, there is only one answer

*

[Ballard]

skeptik wrote:

Seriously though, putting all the earlier nonsense aside, there is only one answer

skeptik, you're showing you're age... Try 'Count Arthur Strong' you might find an affinity with him?

http://www.komediaentertainment.com/cou ... g/mman.php

[Totally_Baffled]

I am PO believer, but I must admit I am beginning to find the energy debate tiresome.

Somebody cheer me up please, I feel like giving up...

Seriously though, putting all the earlier nonsense aside, there is only one answer

*

LOL the goon show!!

I used to listen to my dads tapes ! Absolutely class!! LOL

[skeptik]

skeptik wrote:

Seriously though, putting all the earlier nonsense aside, there is only one answer

skeptik, you're showing you're age... Try 'Count Arthur Strong' you might find an affinity with him?

Hmm ... interesting... Count Arthur wouldn't be a relative of John Shuttleworth by any chance?

[Pippa]

Having had a really bad 24 hours grappling with PO in my mind and having made the totally stupid mistake of trying once more to convince my neighbour of some of the issues - I found this thread and thought that other new PO's might be in a similar situation and would gain faith from these pearls of wisedom.

[son of ballard]

having made the totally stupid mistake of trying once more to convince my neighbour of some of the issues - I found this thread and thought that other new PO's might be in a similar situation and would gain faith from these pearls of wisedom.

Pippa, I quote from "A Life Stripped Bare my year trying to live ethically" by Leo Hickman p. 333 - 334

The author is summarising his year trying to live ethically and how he and his wife engaged with the task:

"I soon learned that we each engaged with different issues at our own pace... There was never any way that she would be railroaded into something like this... I had assumed, incorrectly, that we would both share the same concerns to the same degree... But over time I have learned that it is best just to let Jane find her own way, rather than constantly trying to coax her to join me. It took me a surprisingly long time to learn not to sound like another auditor lecturing her on how to live her life."

My impression is that the author discovered that there is nothing worst than lecturing someone about an issue. Nothing gets your audiences backs up quicker. Instead I think it is best to plant the seed in their minds, make them aware casually, and then let them take it from there if they so wish.

[Andy Hunt]

there is nothing worst than lecturing someone about an issue. Nothing gets your audiences backs up quicker. Instead I think it is best to plant the seed in their minds, make them aware casually, and then let them take it from there if they so wish.

I agree. And when they finally do think it through, you might find that they come up with a perspective which you hadn't thought of yourself!

If you work from the point that everyone will have to think about it at some point eventually, then any comments you make now are preparing people for the inevitable, and therefore lessening the shock when it comes.

So by mentioning it to people, you are doing them a big favour psychologically. After that, it's up to them.

[brasso]

there is nothing worst than lecturing someone about an issue

This applies to most subjects really! The most we really need to do is mention it. If folks don't get it, well at least they can't say we never warned them!

My family are a good example. They basically understand what I'm saying, but they have the understandable reaction against the more radical, "mad max" possibilities. My dad's become more interested from an investment point of view! He asks me what would be a good investment post-peak...

It's a bit like religion really - if you take a 'blind faith' point of view, then you'll always be butting your head against a brick wall. But if you take an open-minded, "anything's possible" point of view, then it's easier for people to consider possibilities.