Recycling...

[Tawney]

Does anybody still not recycle?

That's the easy bit. The next challenge is to stop them consuming in the first place!

People will stop consuming heavily if their living standards slump.

On a practical note, if you have a milkman you can get your milk and fruit juice in glass bottles (along with other groceries). The empties are collected on the next visit, of course. Bottles are reused 20 times before being melted down apparently. Plus it's all regularly delivered in an electric vehicle so you can be lazy and green at the same time.

[emordnilap]

Does anybody still not recycle?

That's the easy bit. The next challenge is to stop them consuming in the first place!

People will stop consuming heavily if their living standards slump.

On a practical note, if you have a milkman you can get your milk and fruit juice in glass bottles (along with other groceries). The empties are collected on the next visit, of course. Bottles are reused 20 times before being melted down apparently. Plus it's all regularly delivered in an electric vehicle so you can be lazy and green at the same time.

Ah but you have to pay people to do these jobs.

Far better to let people expend money, time and effort to come to you at virtually cost to yourself, for them to serve themselves and even do the checkout operator's job for zilch; then they give you money for the privilege.

Then these same nobodies pay someone else, again out of their own taxed money, to take your unwanted goods away; make the environment chip in too while you're at it.

The size of the conscience of capitalism is precisely matched by that of consumerism.

[Tawney]

Sadly it's true, emordnilap. I expect nothing from the conscienceless giant supermarkets themselves. Yet I live in hope that when petrol prices rise sufficiently, door-to-door delivery in electric vehicles (plus localism and home growing) will become more attractive than taking the Land Cruiser to the out of town Tescopoly.

That said, the end of milk deliveries is nigh I expect. DEFRA and the Green MEPs seem to want a shift to UHT. Who will have a milk delivery when UHT milk lasts 9 months unrefrigerated? A peak oil world will probably mean UHT or your own goat in the backyard.

[RenewableCandy]

UHT is an abomination.

[Tawney]

UHT is an abomination.

I agree but apparently it requires a lot less refrigeration, hence the EU Greens are keen. Also the EU technocrats want to standardise (enlarge) the overall milk market. Plus DEFRA were keen a couple of years back because they want UK farmers to be able to sell more milk into the EU and harder to do if we're doing our own thing. Not sure how long the UK can hold out.

This could be the way ahead:

‘Battery’ dairy of 8,000 cows sparks protests

A GIANT factory farm for “battery cows” is being planned for the British countryside with an 8,000-strong herd, a 24-hour milking operation and cubicles covered with sand instead of fresh pasture.

The Lincolnshire herd will be the biggest in Britain but rarely see sunshine. It will produce more than 430,000 pints of milk every day. Slurry from the cows will be used to produce power and may be sold to the national grid.

Farmers behind the scheme say the intensive production methods are needed to ensure Britain’s dairy industry remains competitive.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 043926.ece

In a PO world UHT from "farms" like this may be the future. Better get your own cow!

[Señor]

Given the amount of people that buy free range eggs over barn eggs, I can't see that milk plant idea going down too well.

[adam2]

Given the amount of people that buy free range eggs over barn eggs, I can't see that milk plant idea going down too well.

Would they realise ? I fear not.
Many people are aware that free range eggs are preferable to battery ones on welfare grounds, and perhaps also taste better. Sales are therefore increaseing.

To most shoppers however milk is milk, some probably dont even know that it comes (usually) from cows.
I doubt that many consider the animal welfare standards of the cows, though this may change of course.

[Tawney]

I believe in the US, UHT was often put in the fridge alongside the pasteurised milk to help win people over (though UHT doesn’t need to go in the fridge). If it’s in a nice carton and the price is right most people probably won’t object.

Surely it is only a matter of time before carbon taxes are imposed? If so there is bound to be a tax on non-UHT milk.

The EU Greens are attempting to get the word “fresh” banned for milk with a shelf life of more than 7 days; that effectively would cover much of our refrigerated supermarket milk. (The shelf life increased because the milk now gets from cow to supermarket shelves within 24-48 hrs.)

http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/articles.asp ... &ID=211531

All preparation for making it harder to distinguish between UHT and traditional milk; it might save energy but I’d rather go without. There’s also the issue of nutrients lost and the apparent inability to make yogurt/cheese from UHT

A lot of milk and eggs are used in processed food and drinks (cakes, McFlurries etc) so factory farming cows/hens shouldn’t have trouble finding a market, even if some customers say “no” when they have a choice.

Wasn’t it P.T. Barnum that said: “No one ever lost money underestimating the public’s taste”? He also supposedly said: "There's a sucker born every minute”, but that may be apocryphal.

[Kentucky Fried Panda]

We used to hand out a lot of UHT milk to refugees, they loved it

[woodpecker]

UHT is the devil's work. In most of Spain - since the demise of one woman and her van/donkey and raw milk - it's the only thing you can get now. I refuse to drink it.

The trouble with many Greens (and veggies and vegans) is that they view food as fuel; whereas I regard food as one of life's pleasures. Wild generalisation, I know, but...

How much land does a goat need for grazing?

[emordnilap]

The trouble with many Greens (and veggies and vegans) is that they view food as fuel; whereas I regard food as one of life's pleasures. Wild generalisation, I know, but...

Both here; it's 50/50 thing.

My appreciation of food has increased enormously since going vegan. I'm beginning to wonder if I used to taste food properly, I love it so much now. That's just me though.

[lilsmiley]

Does anybody still not recycle?

That's the easy bit. The next challenge is to stop them consuming in the first place!

People will stop consuming heavily if their living standards slump.

On a practical note, if you have a milkman you can get your milk and fruit juice in glass bottles (along with other groceries). The empties are collected on the next visit, of course. Bottles are reused 20 times before being melted down apparently. Plus it's all regularly delivered in an electric vehicle so you can be lazy and green at the same time.

This is quite an old fashioned way of delivering milk/juice, i wasn't sure if it still happened but obviously it does and it is a good way of doing so.

[JohnB]

This is quite an old fashioned way of delivering milk/juice, i wasn't sure if it still happened but obviously it does and it is a good way of doing so.

Nothing old fashiooned about it. It's still happening everywhere, in big fossil fueled vans with the evil T***o in big letters on the side, rather than little electric milk floats. Just a change in some of the technology, the scale, and the range of products.

[jonny2mad]

How can I out so called green festivals for not recycling, how would you go about it, this is much bigger then a individual not recycling we are talking massive amounts of stuff landfilled that could be recycled.

[lilsmiley]

This is quite an old fashioned way of delivering milk/juice, i wasn't sure if it still happened but obviously it does and it is a good way of doing so.

Nothing old fashiooned about it. It's still happening everywhere, in big fossil fueled vans with the evil T***o in big letters on the side, rather than little electric milk floats. Just a change in some of the technology, the scale, and the range of products.

That's a very good point! They should bring back the electric floats